It will NOT negotiate a 20-degree curve. Neither will 844 or 3985. Forget the drawings; talk to those who have rerailed them a number of times. You will get an earful. None of the 3 can back around a curve much sharper than 12 degrees, due to the tender. Since all wye moves involve at least one back-up move, this is an important consideration.

Several things have changed to make this restoration possible: A change in UP top management a few years ago, and a few more mergers, which gave UP more places they could run (and turn) a large locomotive such as this one. Example: Most of the exSP, the exCNW east-west mainline, etc.

This will be a challenge to the current crew, none of whom have any restoration experience and only a year or two of somewhat star-crossed operating experience. Keep in mind that the UP's Steam Department had over 100% turnover in the last couple of years. All of the "old heads" are gone (including some that weren't that old).

These are young guys, just starting out for the most part, and they will learn a lot, which is to their (and our) benefit. Expect a few fits-and-starts, some things learned the hard way, some work done 2 or 3 times, etc. Basic growing pains.

We learned by doing that a locomotive may have a rating from the builder that in real life is next to impossible to achieve.

The 614 is supposed to be able to negoitiate a 20 degree curve but we learned the hard way that 15 degrees is as steep as she'll take without a whole lot of extra efforts ( greasing/oiling rails, removal of apron etc.,etc.) in advance. We have taken her around one 19 degree wye successfully,..... but never again!!

Nothing like real life experience!!

Ross Rowland

Steve Lee, in what had to have been one of history's best banquet speeches, presented much the same information that he does in the video the OP linked to. I suspect that Mr. Lee had been asked the "restore a Big Boy?" question many, many times and had the answers down pat.

Like many, I wondered what changed. Probably someone high in UP management wants to maximize PR during the 150th anniversary of the Golden Spike a few years hence. I'm sure someone did their homework on logistics and the economic issues have obviously been taken care of.

We can only hope that, in due time, someone will write the book on the issues that went into the decision to restore the Big Boy. I'm sure the issues Steve Lee raised on the video (and at the Scranton banquet) will be properly dealt with. Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to seeing 4014 in steam.

(BTW, at the Scranton banquet, Steve brought the house down with his recollections of his misadventures with 3985 on Clinchfield. I wish someone had that speech on tape.)

I'm sure in time that many things will come out about why and how UP is doing this...I'm sure in it's simplest form it comes down to UP seeing it as a tremendous PR tool for the company....Even if it's only operated once or twice a year.

I speculate that U.P. is not of one mind on their steam adventure, but rather hangs in a near balance between the pull of corporate nostalgia of their steam pioneering legacy and the pull of no-nonsense, corporate stoicism. The fact that operating a 4-8-8-4 was deemed infeasible in 1994 and feasible today is evidence of how delicate the balance of corporate attitude on the matter actual is.

And I suspect that this delicate balance can tip one way or the other with just the change of one member of management or a change in world events. So, I must conclude that the decision to go ahead today is no more fixed than the decision to not go ahead once was.

Exactly! There are two different issues raised in that video.

1) It would be REALLY expensive! - Answer: Do you know how much a network TV commercial costs? We run them all the time. Maybe we'll skip a few and burn dollar bills instead of coal. UP's Q2 profit for 2013 was 1.1 Billion. Yes, with a B. Profit, not revenue, which was $5.5 Billion. For 3 months. They can handle it. Problem solved, no mystery there.

2) There are technical limitations on where you can run it. - That is the part that interests me. He not only talks about turning facilities, he even mentions having to re-align tracks and how it would still have a limited area it could run.

Can UP do that sort of thing if they want to? Of course they can! That isn't the question. It's simply a matter of being interested in what they needed to do and what ended up not being an issue. Not "Can they do it?", but rather "What is going to be done to make this work?"

Kind of like watching a restoration project at a respected museum. You don't doubt they'll get it done, but it's fascinating to see what all was involved in the work.

Not to mention, it's the biggest steam locomotive in the world! When a company like U.P. is invested in steam locomotive operations and has a most favored locomotive in its catalog, not to mention eight available, why wouldn't you want to take advantage? Americans love the biggest, the best, the largest, and all those other superlatives.

I also think we who comment in this particular forum, for the most part, have far too many opinions and far too little inside understanding of what is happening at the corporate level. The regional economic value of running a Big Boy is grossly underestimated. Not only can it pay for itself by hauling freight if desired, this locomotive is going to plow millions of dollars into line side communities.

Richard, I'm not questioning the PR value and corporate whims one bit! UP has always prided themselves on having the biggest and the best. I'm certain that they'll milk this engine for everything that it's worth. You'll see it on TV, hear about it on the radio, read it in newspapers and magazines. They'll get far more exposure than they could possibly buy.

That is NOT the question. Yes, it makes sense. No, it doesn't matter if it does or not, it's their railroad and their money.

The question, at least the one I'm asking is about the technical side of things. "What is going to have to be done, if anything, to allow this locomotive to run?" For many years, not only did Steve Lee say "It would cost too much" he also had a list of technical reasons stating why it wouldn't work.

The cost factor is simple, management had a change of heart. But that won't suddenly mean you can turn the locomotive someplace you couldn't before, unless they build a wye or do something else. (As some have noted, mergers have added options.) Also, as I mentioned before, they've run a lot of windmill trains which have huge overhang. Maybe that showed them it's not as big of an issue, and those trains served as unintentional test runs?

Had Steve Lee simply said "Management doesn't want to pursue it" there would be no discussion of the technical issues. When NS brought the steam program back, nobody said "Hey, I thought you said it wasn't feasible" since nobody had. They simply said "We decided to cancel the program". Then, years later, "We decided to start it again". At that point you simply say "OK, cool!"

I think on the technical side the biggest concern would be boiler overhang in a curve, but If a 80" drivered FEF can get around a wye than a 68" drivered 4000 can as well, again with consideration given to boiler overhang. The centipede tender is more of a determining factor than the driver wheelbase. As for main line running, who knows perhaps tracks have been re-aligned in areas, maybe the UP will have to insure where the 4014 meets another train and so on. I'd like to actually see numbers on curvature ect for a 4000, and the related boiler overhang, and compare it to the 3985 to see just how much of a difference actually exists.

Any operational restrictions with 4014 will show up in their restricted equipment rules, employee timetable special instructions, and clearance bureau messages, just like any other oversize/specialized equipment that can move over a Class I railroad. I'm sure there could/will be places that it cannot pass other trains, or even operate over for one reason or another. It's like having a big, heavy transformer or similar dimensional load in a freight train.