Does anybody know of any good web sites that explains... or does anybody know, what the lettering stands for on this Tie Plate (see link below) they are still in use today and attached to rails dated 1950


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=457839

Thanks
Bill

The bottom line shows the tie plate has holes punched in it suitable the size of the base of a rail that weighs 100, 110, or 112 pounds per yard. Up above, I'd guess the Colo refers to some Colorado steel mill. H.W is a question, but T. P. is tie plate.

Just guessing here:

COLO= Colorado Fuel & Iron
H.W.= could be a plant designation
T.P. = tie plate
12= possibly could mean section size or month rolled
100-110-112= sizes of rail tie plate fits
1936= year rolled

Tie plates were rolled on a rolling mill and sheared to length. The finish roll would have this wording repeated several times on the circumference of the rolling surface. After rolling the plates were sheared so each plate would have a full roll mark. Then they would be punched for the spike holes.

Since were on the subject of tie plates i have a question pertaining to a few tie plates i bought on Ebay recently for $9.99. Not sure why i even bought them? I guess just because they were different than what i have ever seen before and some others i have in my collection of old RR iron. There are 4 tie plates all together and each has the lettering FISH HOOK. Anybody know what Fish Hook stands for? I have 4 total and all have only 2 spike holes, 1 is smaller with WRE CO 1R52 and St. Louis with some kind of insigna of to the side of the spike hole,the bottom below the lip has a A then theres the spike hole then PATD 1901, below that in smaller letters is HOERR then in larger letters FISH HOOK. The bottoms of each tie plate have 8 large cleats for digging into the RR tie.

The next 2 tie plates i'm guessing are for 75 lb. rail and they are slightly larger but what's odd about them are, the 2 spike holes are opposite on each plate and they appear to be a right and left pair. They have the PATD 1901, one has IR75, the other IL75 Both have the large letters FISH HOOK on the lower part below the lip. One has a letter D the other a couple letters i can't make out. What's the reason for having a right and left tie plate pair?

The 4th tie plate appears to be for 75lb. rail as the spike holes are spaced the same as the others but it is a much wider plate and has WRE CO ST. LOUIS then 2L52 would the L designate a left one? The lower part of the plate below the lip has HOERR FISH HOOK PATD 1901.

The Ebay seller listed them as being D&RG tie plates but none have that marked on them, he also had a few other iron D&RG items wich sold that were marked D&RG.

I can post photo's if anyone is interested but they're just old tie plates. I mainly was curious as to what the FISH HOOK stood for and why there would appear to be a right and left tie plate. Thank you for any information!

HudsonL, I guess that explains why they were called Fish Hook! Those hooked end parts on the cleats on the 4 tie plates i have must have all rusted off as well as those 3 center pointed ones.
Thank's again for the link!

I picked up a few of this type of plate, also missing their "fish hooks," on the grade of the Perry County Railroad in Pennsylvania, which shut down in 1939.

I can kind of see why the fish hook tie plate never caught on. It is a bit difficult to see the reasoning behind the invention. The stated goal of sealing out water from entering between the tie and the plate seems like wishful thinking, especially when you consider that each one of those fish hooks is going to develop a longitudinal split in the tie that is likely to continue past the boundaries of the plate.

I wonder how one would go about installing such a plate and end up with it positioned at gage. I also wonder if the explanation for finding such plates with missing fish hooks might be that the railroad company ended up busting the hooks off with a hammer in order to use the plates in a normal fashion.

Here is the full patent: http://www.drgw.net/info/uploads/Main/pat746028.pdf

The purpose of tie plates is to distribute weight over a larger portion of the tie, thus prolonging tie life through reduction of mechanical wear. Adding fish hooks defeats the design feature, as the projections cut into the tie, acting as a wedge(s) which result in splitting and premature failure. As the size of rail and rolling stock increased, rail and track showed tendencies toward losing alignment to the point of "sun kinks". It finally became apparent that rail anchors were what was wanted, not something on the bottom of the plate offering far less than what a track spike was doing. Looking at contemporary track, we see every other tie box anchored and every tie box anchored near any type of bolted joint.
In time, tie plates evolved to have a canted rail base bearing surface, giving optimal rail-wheel contact. The larger surface of modern plates also offer the option of spike holes away from the rail base that act to supplement gauge holding on curves.

OK, thanks for all the info, Colorado Fuel & Iron I would think is correct since the rails are stamped CF&I 1950 and there were 12 notches on the rail which I believe means the month the rail was made

BTW I just kinda found this site, when I noticed I had another picture that I had taken had been linked to it. (the Wilmington, IL depot demolition) I like this kind of stuff, looking forward to many future discussion

The Pennsylvania Railroad used tie plates with nine holes to hold its 152 and 155-pound rail. There were four rail holding spikes, four plate holding spikes, and a round hole for a lag screw plate anchor.

It was not uncommon for tie plates to have ribs in the bottom, the theory being that they would grip into the tie and hold the plate position, thus keeping the rail in gauge. But they are always running parallel to the rail. They're also small, maybe 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch at most?

This design is the first one I've ever seen where the ribs are perpendicular to the rail. Then again, with the massive hooks this thing has, I suspect that going with the grain (in a very literal sense) was the only option.

I suspect the thought was that once driven into the tie the hooks would hold the tie plate very tightly against the surface of the wood. That would in turn keep the water out...
Well, in theory anyway. In practice, I have to agree, it's not going to work, both due to the splits it will create in the wood, and the fact that the water would penetrate the wood and seep under the plate. But possibly to a lesser extent than it might otherwise. Still, the damage this thing would do to a tie far outweighs any advantage. "It's a tie plate! It's a log splitter! It's both!" ;)

Where does one ordinarily acquire tie plates in quantity 1000? I'm guessing "ebay" is not the answer. And what do they generally cost? Does scarcity play a significant part, or does it track close to the price of scrap?

Tie plates: try one of the usual track material suppliers, such as LB Foster, A&K, Birmingham Rail & Loco. These should be listed in "Pocket List" or on the net. If you need numbers, let me know.

You need to know the rail base width you want; most common are 5 1/2" wide and 6" wide. And, single-shoulder or double-shoulder (strongly recommended for curve use).

Plates are "OTM" (other track material) and are usually priced per ton. Or, per plate. Some reasonably current pricing in the Northeast are 5 1/2" base, single shoulder at $6-7 per plate, and 6" base, DS at $8-10 per plate.

As always, shipping is extra!

OTM as scrap brings $350-400 / ton here in the NE.

Howard P.