We recently had a lovely back-and-forth revolving around whether color was done correctly on a "Smithsonian" passenger coach, based solely on what we were seeing on computer monitors over the Internet. My comment was essentially, "You're passing judgement based on what you're seeing on a computer monitor after it was photographed on a random digital camera? Really??"

The same philosophy is at work here.

Honestly, the ONLY reason this is even being discussed here, as opposed to any other steam or vintage traction "failures" on the U.K. mainlines over the decades, is because there was a spectacular "flash" involved.

Ok

Once again, lots of heat but little light. Here in this country, if this had happened, the engine crew would have been skewered and a whole flock of lawyers would have been circling in for the kill. After all the engine crew, specifically the driver, is responsible for the locomotive over the road. I know for a fact that any crew that regularly runs the same locomotive over time gets to know all of the usual and normal sounds that it makes. They therefore SHOULD know when it DOESN'T sound right. Perhaps this crew knew something bad was happening and was trying to make it to their next water stop to investigate. Or the wrist pin in question simply fractured and there was little or no warning. I'm with ADM the Fourth on this one. We can't say much with a total of 30 seconds of YouTube video as our only source of information.

And as far as any effect on running steam in the UK, forget it. Remember that steam on the main lines in the UK is far more usual than here in the US. Because they have very high standards for steam on the main lines, they know that there can be failures and regard them in the same light as any diesel failure.

Last spring, a friend directed me to this site and now that I think about it, it was more to witness the fights than to learn things. Actually, there are good things to learn on here. Sometimes it takes some coaxing to get useful information out of the few people on here who do seem to know things.
Thank you to the original poster for starting this thread. The unfortunate event is worth discussing.
Here is some data on the locomotive classes under discussion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_West_Co ... in_classes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Merchant_Navy_class
A wee bit more here including the interesting valve gear:
http://steammemories.blogspot.ca/2011/1 ... -gear.html
Adding a better link re the chain driven valve gear - diagram enlarges nicely:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulleid_ch ... valve_gear

I don't consider a thread legitimate until the Sultan of Snark puts his comment on it. Then it's official.

Contrary to your characterization, I actually profess ignorance of the exact situation involved here.

With maturity comes the realization and acknowledgement of how little one actually knows. (And how intelligent your parents actually were.)

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Murphy and all his relatives ride the cab of every steam locomotive. Never fear, he's just plotting what to do to you next.
From the moment these things leave the builder, they start destroying themselves.
Didn't S&A 750 snap a crank pin while on a Southern excursion? I've seen photos of a B&O Pacific with the tire completely off the wheel center and rattling around, rods still on. I'll bet the crew heard that one.
After you've run the same engine on mainlines long enough, like I had the privilege of, you become accustomed to every noise and bump and thump. If something new presents itself it gets noticed pretty quickly. You can also add smell to that list. Nothing like the smell of hot grease.
That's the reason I never wore the headsets like our other two engineers.

Disclaimer: I'm not a steam guy and don't want to be. I have no idea why the little British tea kettle went Poo-Poo. I very much enjoy reading the comments from well respected steam mechanics on this side of the pond as to what the problems or potential problems are. Mechanical failures (steam or otherwise) fascinate me because there is almost always a meaningful lesson to be learned that lets us conduct our business with a greater level of reliability and safety.

You have to be smart enough to know what noises are "right" and what noises are not and a healthy curiousity when you don't know the difference or hear something new. I cut my teeth running a 539 equipped Alco. Everytime I got to feeling good about having learned all of her noises (and behaviors) she'd come up with a new one. It's in your better interest to figure them out unless you know for sure what your hearing.

ETA

My hands-on experience is more with agricultural engines. To add to Mr. Anderson's comments above, if you worried about every click, thump and bang from the motion, you'd end up seriously medicated! That being said, a good operator will keep eyes, ears and hands on things to learn and understand what all these bumps represent.
Remembering back to Canadian National's extensive operations with No.6060 in the 1970s, she generally produced some interesting sounds. After running at 80+ mph and having the grease thrown around, that is not surprising. On one trip, in the relative quiet of the evening, returning to Toronto on the Belleville Sub., when "drifting" at speeds in the high 70s, low 80s, there was very clear rod clanking.
'C'est la vie', the lads would say at Point St. Charles shops! :)

We know what happened - the wrist pin decided to take a vacation in a nice warm oil bath nearby. We don't know why.....and maybe never will. Qualified people will investigate hands-on and might come up with an answer. Videos shot by amateurs and displayed on computer monitors aren't capable of transmitting details.

Since none of us were in the cab during the incident, we have nothing of value to offer in terms of what the driver and fireman "should have" heard, felt, intuited, etc. Those of us who have spent a lot of time on steam and other heavy loud machinery become half deaf in the process, and there's a cacophony of noise and vibration under way at any given time while in motion. I'm happy to give the qualified crew the benefit of the doubt since I don't know any more than the rest of us do. They would not have been entrusted with their positions if their qualifications had been in doubt.

Let's simply wish them well in their investigation and subsequent overhaul for a return to service.

dave

Machinery is susceptible to failure, no matter what it is. I've had a BRAND NEW turbocharger on an SD-40-2 decide to blow itself apart, and a crankcase explosion on another. They still run diesels, and they will still run steam. I can think of two occasions when rods shed themselves from steam locomotives here, and another occasion or two when rods were bent. We cuss'em, we fix 'em and keep rolling.

No, as the discussion title implies, it's being discussed since it had the potential to be a far more serious problem. The "flash" has barely even been mentioned. It was not unknown for a side rod failure to "pole vault" an engine onto its side.

I think that's what has brought it to most folks attention. An on the road failure due to something like bad coal or improper water treatment doesn't have the same implications.

While some people here love to critique, many of us are here to learn. Examining an event like this is one way to do that. (Speculating on the cause does not help, I do agree there.)

This reminds me of a WW2 two-engine airplane which belly-landed when both engines simply gave up one afternoon, back in the '70s. So many people mused that the crew messed up and should have known there was a problem (never mind that the NTSB report came up with no crew error at all), when several people were on board (including a rated instructor pilot in that type who was very familiar with the specific airplane) and nobody heard anything odd at all until the plane quit flying, which turns out was caused by a fuel pump transfer problem, buried deepwithin the wings. Thank goodness they all walked away. But the point is valid here as well.
Good point. File this under the, "But by the grace of God, go I" heading. This could have happened easily to any steam locomotive, regardless of the speed. And the 'pole vault' comment is dead on. I have a period photo of a Seaboard locomotive which did exactly that in Florida in the mid 1940s. Hilarity did not ensue as both the head end crew bought it in a most spectaular and painful manner.

Agreed. Just like I'm not going to speculate on the cause of this past Sunday's derailment on Metro North. Since the engineer in that accident was injured in the derailed cab car, I'm guessing he wasn't taking any unnecessary chances with the speed, and gave an honest answer that "the train didn't slow down", when he made a reduction for the curve it derailed on. Gonna have to wait for the NTSB report on this one, as we should the British report on the rod failure.