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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 329
I'm sorry that I can't answer everyone's questions. There is just no information other than what I provided from on the envelopes.

I stopped at a yard / garage sale back in the spring to look at a lawn tractor they had for sale...

While looking around at the other items they had, I spied this short stack of negatives with a sign calling them "Train Pictures" and the price of $ 5.00 sitting on the corner of a table.

The gentleman said that everybody that looked at them just set them back down and moved on. Since it appeared nobody wanted them he was just going to toss them out. The only thing he could tell me was they were in a bunch of his grandfather's stuff in a basement closet and that his grandfather had once worked for the B&O railroad.

How his grandfather got them or who his grandfather was, I didn't ask.... I offered the man $2.00 for the stack and took them home. They sat in my desk until this past weekend when I decided to scan them and see what the subject matter was.

Again, I'm sorry I can't shed anymore light on the subjects...

Tim W.


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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives / Tower
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:38 pm
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Location: Port Hadlock, Washington
The "sign" mounted at front of the tower is indeed a train order signal, B&O style. To indicate orders, the operator would hang a yellow metal "flag" on hooks mounted near the top on each side. At night, a yellow light was displayed in addition.

At "TY" Tower in Illinois, we had the same signal .... it had been updated to have a yellow light bulb (like a bug light) mounted in the upper part on each side .... plain old household light switches controlled the yellow lights. Originally they hung a yellow lantern in front of the "flag" at night. White indicated no orders.

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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:38 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Port Hadlock, Washington
I was wondering if the train wasn't on its way to the Chicago Railroad Fair? The flatcar with the engine and very early coach has 1949 as build date, same year as the RR Fair (which I attended as a young child.)

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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:59 pm
Posts: 351
Location: western Maryland
Your train wreck indeed happened along the B&O "West End" at CO (McKenzie) Tower where the Patterson Creek cutoff joined the main line from Cumberland to Grafton. The bridge in the background of one of the pictures was a private road to the farm in the background. The farm is still there, the bridge is gone. B&Os Knobley Tunnel passed through the mountain below the rock cliffs visible.

I lived in Pinto. I spent hours sitting along the tracks by an underpass that went under the B&O beside a bridge over the Potomac River on the road from Pinto to Short Gap, WV. The WM Thomas sub crossed the same road on the WV side of the river.

That bridge and road were taken out of service and closed when present day MD Rt 956 was constructed from Rt 220 in Rawlings to provide access to what used to be known as ABL (Allegany ballistics Laboratory) and Short Gap.

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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives / Tower
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6482
skip luke wrote:
The "sign" mounted at front of the tower is indeed a train order signal, B&O style. To indicate orders, the operator would hang a yellow metal "flag" on hooks mounted near the top on each side. At night, a yellow light was displayed in addition.

At "TY" Tower in Illinois, we had the same signal .... it had been updated to have a yellow light bulb (like a bug light) mounted in the upper part on each side .... plain old household light switches controlled the yellow lights. Originally they hung a yellow lantern in front of the "flag" at night. White indicated no orders.


Skip -

Thanks for that info. Fascinating stuff.

BTW, where was TY located?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives / Tower
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:38 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Port Hadlock, Washington
Les Beckman wrote:
skip luke wrote:
The "sign" mounted at front of the tower is indeed a train order signal, B&O style. To indicate orders, the operator would hang a yellow metal "flag" on hooks mounted near the top on each side. At night, a yellow light was displayed in addition.

At "TY" Tower in Illinois, we had the same signal .... it had been updated to have a yellow light bulb (like a bug light) mounted in the upper part on each side .... plain old household light switches controlled the yellow lights. Originally they hung a yellow lantern in front of the "flag" at night. White indicated no orders.


Thanks for that info. Fascinating stuff.

BTW, where was TY located?

Les


Hi, Les,

"TY" was at Tuscola, Ill. I worked there many times, where the B&O line to Springfield crossed the Illinois Central mainline, as well as the Chicago & Eastern Illinois.

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Skip Luke
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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:23 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 841
Richard Glueck wrote:
Considering it's a Diesel hauled train, why the steam? Fire started by friction? Steam to thaw the contents of the cars?
Curious.


I suspect part of it is fire or the aftermath thereof. And the pics clearly show the steam powered derrick, which makes plenty of smoke and steam all by itself.


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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 2112
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Regarding the McKenzie and Rawlings wreck photos--

Did some looking around using Google Earth.

At McKenzie, the road down to the farm that wm303 mentioned is currently named McKenzie Tower Rd SW. The Patterson Creek Cutoff which crossed the North Branch of the Potomac before going through Knobley Tunnel joined the B&O main directly to the east of the now-gone private bridge. In the 2nd photo, you can see CO Tower directly behind the deck of the bridge. In the left-center background of the 1st photo, you can see the bridge over the Potomac on the Cutoff.

Also from the perspective of the 1st photo, the WM Thomas Sub is just beyond the line of trees on the far side of the open field behind CO Tower. The Patterson Creek Cutoff crossed over the WM on a bridge which is still intact, as is the bridge over the Potomac.

At Pinto, the abutments of the now-gone road bridge over the Potomac are still visible, and the underpass under the B&O main is still there. Just to the west of the now-gone road bridge, the WM Thomas Sub crossed the Potomac from the WV to the MD side, and that bridge is still intact. The WM then paralleled the B&O on the MD side of the river through Rawlings and towards McCoole/Keyser.

Just to the south of Rawlings, there's a big bend in the Potomac where the B&O and WM hug the hillside, and this matches the features of the photos of the Rawlings wreck. Note in the 3rd photo that steam cranes are occupying both the B&O (the double tracks) and the WM working from the north side of the wreck, and a third crane (on the B&O) is working on the south side of the wreck in the 1st photo.

Further to the south, the WM again crossed over the Potomac to the WV side, and then back over to MD. Both of these bridges now carry a local road. See here: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/69292815.jpg and here: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/69292820.jpg

Close to McCoole/Keyser, the B&O entered a cut and went underneath the WM before crossing the Potomac to the WV side before turning 180 into Keyser. The WM bridge at this location is also still intact. The WM also did a 180 turn into McCoole on the MD side.

Interesting that these two wrecks occurred within a short distance of one another.

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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 329
14 Negatives, Envelope Marked "Train Wreck 1189 7/3/49

Passenger Train struck the rear of a stopped Freight Train near Deer Park, MD. I did find the DOT report that indicated the crew of the diesels perished in the collision.

The first photo I believe shows the remains of the caboose on top of the diesels.

Tim W.


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07031949_02.jpg
07031949_02.jpg [ 198.03 KiB | Viewed 7402 times ]
07031949_01.jpg
07031949_01.jpg [ 197.06 KiB | Viewed 7402 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 329
The negatives are en route to the safe keeping of the Maryland Rail Heritage Library...

Thank You to everyone for the information and discussion.

Tim Wilson


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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:42 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12150
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
The negatives arrived late yesterday.

I want to thank the various contributors to this and other threads on these "mystery" negatives. As aggravating as it is not to know the photographer or his situation/circumstances, what makes these photo negatives an infinitely more valuable resource is the "crowdsourcing" that went into identifying the subjects of these photos.

Such "crowdsourcing" is critically necessary at any archive. Collective analysis serves to expand the available knowledge and memory.

Virtually every time I'm at the Md. Rail Heritage Library sorting books, the photograph guys are handing me "mystery" photos and saying "Okay, Sandy, where's this station?" ("That's a B&O-style station sign, and it looks like it says 'Winchester'--anyone got another photo of the B&O's station at Winchester, Virginia?"), or "What the heck is 'Southern Iron Equipment Co.'?" ("Southern Iron AND Equipment Co., a locomotive broker down South, that's a former Western Maryland 4-6-0, and is that a C.W. Witbeck photo?"), "What the heck is THAT oversized boxcar?" ("An experimental tobacco hogshead car Southern built about 1965...."), or "Okay, what was the ES&N?" ("Ummmmm... let me take that one home and look it up..." and it turns out to be the Evansville, Suburban & Newburgh in Indiana before electrification....). We also have, and use, such resources as a complete and exhaustive compilation of rosters and equipment lists to everything from major railroads to industries with one "critter," taking up five shelf feet of binders, compiled by the late Barry Hollingsworth, a frequent contributor to Extra 2200 South. It's the help of "walking encyclopedias" like the various readers here that make these photos and others we gather and compile truly valuable as a historical record, and not just another random bunch of negatives about to be thrown out.

I also want to publicly thank the honorable Mr. Wilson for his efforts and generosity, and I definitely owe him several beers or favors of a similar nature when we cross paths.....


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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 329
Uncovered another negative from the Cumberland, MD Visit of the "Train of Tomorrow".


UPDATE:

The family gave me complete access to their grandfather's photo albums... A lot of it is family snap shots but there is some decent railroad stuff. Apparently after leaving the railroad his employment was in the shipping department of the Kelly Springfield Tire factory in Cumberland. Several photos of tires being loaded in boxcars and later trailers with lots of 60's and 70's era trucks........

Mr. Mitchell, the negative for this image and a thumb drive with the railroad related images will be coming your way.

Tim W.


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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks again, Tim, for posting these photos!

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 Post subject: Re: More Mystery Negatives
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 329
You're welcome..... it's been interesting to see how much Cumberland has changed and what this gentleman felt was worth photographing and / or saving.

Tim W.


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