Would like to hear from museums that have built pole-buildings for RR equipment storage & display, such as IRM, HVRM, etc.

What are your pros & cons of your buildings?
If you could do over, would you change anything?
What is your prefered track & walkway spacing to get the most equipment under roof?

Any replies greatly appreciated.

Steve G.
RCT&HS in Penna.

Here is what I can provide from memory of IRM's early buildings:

The first car barn, now Barn 4 (named for the yard in the track arrangement, not chronologically) which is now partially used for the electric car restoration shop, was a standard Morton building with, IIRC, a 56' clear span. The track arrangement is three tracks on 18' centers, which allowed for 16' wide doors with double 6x6 posts in between, and 10' from the centerline of the outer tracks to the extreme width of the building, or about 9'-6" to the inside of the posts.

The track for the second building, now Barn 3, was initially laid out in similar fashion, but Lester Buildings offered a 60' span building, and the museum realized that by adding a fourth track, they could cover 33% more equipment for the same money. Barn 3 has tracks on, IIRC, 14'-6" centers, and a little over 8' from the outer track centerlines to the exterior width, or about 7'-9" to the inner faces of the posts. This wasn't bad for streetcars and interurbans; unfortunately, this building has the lowest track of any building at IRM, and since it was found that when the creek floods it easily invades the motors, only railroad cars are stored there now. Even so, there is room for a 4' wide raised walkway between the outer two pairs of tracks to allow viewing of the car interiors.

The third building, built by a local contractor, has four tracks in a 66' span, which gives a bit more room between tracks, and all later storage buildings follow the same track plan, but I am not aware of their exact widths.

At the time the first buildings were built in the 1970's, the wood frame agricultural "pole barn" was the absolute cheapest way to get a roof over the cars, and with the first building now at age 40 years, they are holding up well, although I see that IRM has begun to have roofs repainted in recent years. Since IRM is still building more of the same type building, I assume the economics haven't changed drastically.

I'm not really sure what one gains by going to a steel framed building, other than maybe reduced maintenance costs fifty years out; you can certainly install a concrete floor in a pole building, and a sprinkler system if you so choose. Local building code will come into play here, however.

The Western Railway Museum built a 60 X 340 foot pole building in 1966 to put its collection in. The building was designed as a building with a 20 year life. It still stands, but needs to be replaced. It saved the Museum's collection from years of damage from the elements. The building has 15 foot track centers, which are adequate except for along the walls. There should have been another 4 feet along the walls.

The building codes would not allow the construction of this type of building at WRM any more. You need to talk with local building people and see what you will be allowed to build. There are "A" type buildings, which the public would be allowed in, and "S" type buildings, which are for storage and are not open to the public. Pole buildings are considered agriculture buildings, and in our area are not allowed at a Musuem.

The pole building has experienced damage over the years from wind and rot and has required maintenance. Moisture coming up from the ground damages these sheet metal buildings. A vapor barrier to help control this moisture is recommennded and will help preserve both the building and the equipment. Several smaller buildings will cost more but will limit the risk of fire loss.

Railway car size doors are a challenge, particularly if wind is prevalent in your area.

Does your query cover the similar prefabricated steel structures?

Steve -

You mentioned HVRM. Our original shop building was donated by McGill Manufacturing and was a 60' x 100' machine shop that we had to raise approximately 6' in order to get railroad equipment into the building on two tracks. Later on, we did purchase a pole barn which was added to the front of the original McGill building. And finally, we took down the enginehouse at Monterey, Indiana which was re-erected and tacked on to the rear of the McGill section. Since you are asking only about pole buildings, I'll comment only on that east 60' x 60' addition. When we "customized" the original McGill structure, we built two swinging doors and later transferred them to this addition. There is a problem with the roof I believe, which may be due to how it was installed. I don't recall leaks (as we have on the original McGill building), but some other problem. Perhaps someone else at HVRM might advise what that problem is. Biggest drawbacks are a lack of a complete concrete floor and heat during the winter (which we are now addressing on the west addition). With the 60' width, I wouldn't want to put any more than two tracks in; I think a third track would have made things too tight for working on equipment although it probably could have been accommodated.

Finally, and this is a personal opinion only, I'm not a real big fan of pole buildings, although I understand their place in providing protection for equipment and a place to work on equipment out of the weather.

Les

I think that TVRM has one where they store some older diesels K&T 10 and for know 610 until 4501 is done, may be Mr. Ray or Mr. Freer can chime in on what they think.

The pole structure at TVRM is nothing more than a pole shed without enclosed sides. Tracks 6 and 5 run into the shed, which was the first structure to be erected at East Chattanooga. It kept things mostly dry, but being unenclosed, provides only limited protection. Track 6 has the best protection as whatever is on track 5 is more exposed to weathering. There are a couple of F units stored there along with the steam locomotives. I believe that track 6 also had the original ash pit, which was later filled in.

Steve G,

If you want to get a good cost of what it took to build a building in today's dollars I would give Monticello Railway Museum in Monticello, IL a call. They recently built a brand new building to store there equipment in and I think it was 3 or 4 track building of a pole building type construction.

Steven H.

Here is the IRM web site fund-raising page for the next pole building, IRM's 9th equipment pole barn. Current code in Mc Henry County, IL for non-sprinklered buildings is a max of 30,000 square feet located at least 60' from any other structure. Track centers are 15 feet (four tracks). Note that the cost estimate quoted does not include the track. IRM prefers to complete the track and use it for rolling stock storage until money can be raised for the building, which can be built over the track without disturbing it.

http://www.irm.org/events/indoorstorage.html

The SE Narrow Gauge & Shortline Museum/Alexander Chapter NRHS is currently finishing a metal structure that cost us $280k, and was cheaper than a conventional pole barn for the dimensions we have.

The barn is L shaped and has 2 dual guage storage tracks that are 120 feet long each, and the smaller third track is 60 feet long. We have concrete sidewalks around the perimeter of the building and between each track. Height is very important and was a major component of our cost. We built it so that the bottom of the eve was 20 feet from the top of the rail. This height caused our concrete footers to be 7" x 7" for wind resistance!

Sorry I don't have a better photo handy...

Matt Bumgarner

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Thanks for the great replies in one day's time!

Yes. All types: steel, wood, popsicle sticks, whatever you folks have experience with.

Greatly appreciate your time for the replies.
I would very much like to avoid having to re-invent the wheel (or barn).

Steve

Steve,
I like this design for maximum track under roof and also viewing aesthetics. Modular design add to length as funds become available, sides can be added and/ or sections of it could be walled in to use as a shop. If you wanted to you could add a 7th track down the center for under roof storage when the museum is not open. Unknown photographer Travel Town, Los Angeles, CA

Mike Tillger

One thing to consider:

A properly designed/built steel structure can be added onto, relocated, and/or even re-sold as needs warrant. In an extreme case, as happened with a loco group in the U.K. with which I am a member, a pre-existing building can be dismantled and donated to a cause like this. (As I remember the story, they were raising funds for a building for four locomotives' worth of space on two tracks, and someone with the right strings to pull got a building big enough for nine locos on three tracks donated by the National Coal Board. The building sat dismantled for about two years; when it was realised that the building was just too big for the land made available, they sold the donated building to get the funds for a new shed smaller than the donated one but bigger than they had been planning.)

If your plans call for expansion or the possibility of relocation, you may want to factor in the "portability" factor. I'm currently watching one operation that has changed its mission slightly over the past decade, and now needs to rearrange the property after forty years or so, and suddenly a "building for the ages" becomes "can we move it or sell it?"

A proper concrete "knee wall" is a very good idea, makes the poles last much longer, also helps preserve the siding.

-Hudson

The Wilmington and Western in Delaware has kept nearly their entire fleet inside a pole barn for nearly 50 years. The passenger cars are on their second paint job and they have never had to deal with broken windows and graffiti. Additionally, the entire property has a nice high secure fence. You can't go wrong.