Does anybody roll girder rail anymore? Would solve the flangeway problem.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Does anybody roll girder rail anymore? Would
> solve the flangeway problem.

> Dave
I have heard that there is a place in Europe that still rolls it. However it is designed for "good" wheels ...some of the steel mill wheels would be 1" into the air riding on the flanges. If you really want to get fancy check the site below ...anyone been there ?


http://www.rfrindustries.com/special.html
lamontdc@adelphia.net

Gary,

Thanks to you and everyone for their input.

Do you have any input on how the rail should be installed in the slab? We want it to be nearly flush to the floor. It appears it should stick up a little to handle any odd profiled wheels and needs proper flangeways.

From what I have read here, it seems people have rail laid with wood ties and encased in concrete, concrete poured with formed areas for the rail and bolt downs placed into the wet concrete where the rail is later bolted to the cured floor to make it flush to the floor (some appear to fill in the rail areas with grout, concrete or wood blocking and some appear to leave them open), and finally rail just bolted to a flat floor leaving it sticking above the floor.

So I am still unsure if we should go with standard built track with wood ties or go with some type of forming which would allow us to bolt the rail to the floor. Certainly, the cost savings on ties would be great, although there is probably some additional forming necessary to make the correct troughs for the rail to be placed in.

Again, any more info is appreciated. Anyone have any pics of their installs? That would really help.

Until later,
Chris

> Chris:

> I would recommend you put the jacking pads
> into the walls of the proposed pit track. It
> needs to be formed up anyway and will be
> more cost effective.

> As for the floor specify 5,000 psi concrete
> a minimum of 6" thick. If you go
> 8" with reinforcing grid wire you can
> almost run a locomotive on the floor alone.
> You will get minor surface cracks but the
> floor will not break apart. I have seen shop
> floors heavily abused built to a similar
> spec and have stood the test of time.

> I have built four shops with concrete floors
> with no long term maintenance problems.


Rochester Chapter NRHS
crhauf@frontiernet.net

I have heard and seen where a rail, the same weight as the track, is laid on it's side with it's head (the ball) inserted into the web of the track providing a nice flange way.

You should ensure the flangeways will clear the maximum flange depth and minimum wheel back to back you anticipate using.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

What about laying concrete ties, 132lb rail, and using rubber strips on either side of the rail as is done on some grade crossings.

jasonsobczynski@yahoo.com

Nearby is "Knott's Berry Farm" an amusement park circled by a train. The trains are ex-DRGW 36" narrow gauge steam and a "Galloping Goose". When visiting there recently, I noticed the following.
The majority of the mainline is laid with scale or typical rail. However, where the railroad crosses a busy pedestrian area, which is a large expanse of smooth asphalt, I could see it used rail of a very large, modern section! I could see how the buried rail was taller and wider than the normal rail. The joint was welded. I could not see the ties. However, you might call them for ideas.
I believe this was done to preclude the necessity of changing rail, or worrying about track settling, etc. You could probably get a few lengths of big iron and secure them to wood or even home-made metal ties and they would last forever.
The message is to think of going "outside the normal" for the buried track. It would still look correct from the railhead. So what if the ties are actually donated 6" steel channel, and there is some extra 3" steel channel or such between the main ties? There are no signal voltages to worry about, right? Go heavy and then bury it.
Advice from a mechanical not locmotive engineer.

Kimball,

Thanks for the input.

I guess I am still looking for some more details on floor installs. I think I have the basic options down and in all cases, good flangeways are a must.

In general, it seems some people have formed channels with and without tie downs installed in the concrete and installed the rail after the floor was poured and cured inside the channels. Some have later filled in those channels with a variety of materials and some have not. It seems other people have built the rail with wood and with steel ties and basically poured the floor around it.

So, I guess I am now looking for more details on the variety of installs to see what might work best for us. Some of our members are concerned about not having access to the rail should the rail fail or become damaged. This would lead us to use a channel approach where the rail is secured to the floor and the channels left in some safe manner to allow easy or relatively easy access to the rail tie downs. Others believe and some of the opinions here seem to say that if you do it right from the start with good materials and a proper slab, you'll never have to worry about the rail. We currently have a large stock of 90lb rail on hand which is what we were thinking of using although the vast majority of our railroad is 80lb rail.

Again, any additional thoughts, pics, or plans are appreciated. I am a color scientist by training so this is outside of my area of expertise. And while we have people in our group with LOTS of good construction and civil engineering experience, none of those people have ever built a railroad restoration shop which is why I value ALL the input I get here from those that have.

Thanks!

Until later,
Chris



Rochester Chapter NRHS
crhauf@frontiernet.net

Chris:

We have recently gone through the same thing-- how to do the floor of a new shop building. The architect & engineer types said that we should use a full concrete slab, because when the ties rot, how will we replace them?

After many years of experience with the Valley RR shop at Essex, which is plain track with concrete to the outside edges, I thought that to be a bit foolish. The ties ought to last as long as the steel building-- the first part of the Valley shop dates to 1975, and the ties are just fine.

Our plan is to use 132 lb. welded rail in the shop building-- no joints in the floor. This will be laid onto new 7x9 ties, placed on full depth (10-12 inches) stone ballast, and well-surfaced. The floor will be poured up to rail head height (just shy of it, to avoid the "tread cracking" referred to previously), with a deep-section, reinforced, full-length jacking pad just outside each rail. The center area ("gage") will be open, ballasted even with the tops of the ties. Concrete cross-ramps will be in the gage only at each end door. Intermediate cross-ramps will be moveable wood inserts (for moving wheeled items--welder, torch cart, etc.) across the gage.



Railroad Museum of New England
hpincus@mindspring.com

Howard,

Thanks for the great explanation.

One follow-on. How do you handle the jacking pads with the ends of the ties protruding a good foot or more on the outside of the rails? Are you using short ties or doing something else? Just curious.

Any more specifics are welcome. Disadvantages of rail joints?

Thanks!

Until later,
Chris


Rochester & Genesee Valley RR Museum
crhauf@frontiernet.net