I can't imagine that true high speed runs will return. Over in the UK, Network Rail limits all steam locomotives to 75 mph. However, that does not mean that they will not grant occasional exemptions. For the anniversary of Mallard's world speed record, they lifted the limit for A4 Bittern to 90 mph. With the raised restriction, Bittern was officially timed at 92 mph on June 29, 2013. On December 5th, Bittern was officially timed at 93 mph.

One factor that may have played into a higher speed run that normal was the fact that you had a delayed train, with what I assume was ONE steam- qualified crew on board. If that crew dies on hours...well, that presents NS with a huge problem, a greater one than a General Order which was issued (IMHO) based on management hysteria instead of operating necessities. If that were the case, I'm sure it was approved "up the ladder" as a contingency. In time, they may very well lift it.

To the gent who inquired about bearing limits... there are limits, but other limits like rotational or dynamic balance of the running gear would probably come first. Someone more technical and wise could probably speak to this better.
This article/link gives a very good idea of the operation of plain journal bearings. It mentions that well designed plain bearings and lubrication are actually well suited to very high RPM.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... ubrication

Just to clarify, I don't have specific proof that she went over 40 on the Saturday trip, but if I had thought of it when we were pacing it east of Newport TN into the Gorge, I would have filmed both the speedometer of the car and 630 and train at the same time, I am sorry for any confusion that this thread may have caused, it was just out of pure curiosity. Thanks

I meant to mention this in the first place, but very often there are subtle differences in the operating speed and train handling depending on who is running. The variation among the steam crew isn't as noticeable as when there is a change in the helper crew. Frankly, I think some of the helper crews are a bit nervous and if anything tend to be conservative (err on the side of caution) when they're running. I don't recall ever feeling that the speed was more than a nominal 40 MPH. I did wonder once or twice if we were gonna get to 40 MPH.

I would also echo the sentiments of those who opined that the days of cheating on the speed are over. Considering all of the people on those trains that are in a management position, I think there are just too many eyes for that to go unnoticed. And last but not least, saying that the TVRM engine crew takes what they're doing seriously would be an understatement. My opinion would be that they are too professional to let their speed go unchecked.

ETA

Hours of service was not an issue nor a reason to hurry as there were two separate steam qualified crews used for those Asheville trips each day. Furthermore nobody is allowed to stay at a Red Roof Inn or red roof anything while chasing a Southern Railway steam locomotive. Get it? Got it? Good.

Oh Lord, not that red (cab) roof business again......

ETA

Thanks for clearing that up, Hayneshopcat. There had to be a good reason, but perhaps such things just need to be dealt with by the people on the scene and just enjoy the 630 running as fast as NS allows.

Both the 765 and 4501 have or will have event recorders and radar speedometers aboard.

The speed limit is largely related to insurance. There has been discussion of raising the speed limit for ferry moves -- especially lengthy, 200+ mile ones.

KL

Anyone is has ridden on a 21st Century trip and bothered to ask questions and get to know people involved will also discover that Southern #630 also has an event recorder.

I am taken back by how many people are worried whether the locomotive is running at 40 mph every second or shot up to 45 or 50 mph for a minute or two. It is even better those that comment on max speed limits. The #630 clearly has no issue achieving and maintaining speeds up to 45 mph. The Southern Railroad handbooks of the 70's and 80's, prior to the change in policy after 1986, not only gave speed limits for steam locomotives used, but listed out the maximum speeds for each locomotive. 722 & 630 were listed at 45 mph, 4501 was 50 mph, and so on.

Honestly, Norfolk Southern, TVRM, and FWRHS, are all operated by extremely intelligent men and women who set the rules in the first place. Norfolk Southern isn't required to answer for the decisions they make in operating their own, or someone else's contracted equipment. Anyone over 35 who rode a Southern or NS Steam Program trip prior to 1986 has ridden behind various engines pushing speeds up to the 60 mph and beyond.

The crews do not need to prove that their engines can do 50 mph +...because they already have. Enjoy the 40 mph speed limit...besides it gives you a better chance to annoy law abiding drivers with your careless regard for public safety as you drive like Andretti to get your next photo op.

Getting back to steam locomotive speeds and driver sizes, I was told years ago that a good rule of thumb is that a steam locomotive is capable of running at a speed of 110% of it's driver diameter, expressed in inches. That is assuming good counterbalancing and decent track; it also applies to road engines, of course. An 0-6-0 switcher with 50 inch drivers is NOT a 55 MPH machine. A Pacific on 69 inch drivers should be good for 75 or 76, 75.9 MPH to be exact. But to operate slower, like the 40 or 45 MPH as mentioned earlier for some of the Southern steam engines, only prolongs the life of the machinery.

I rechecked the Feasibility Study page on the Fire Up 611 website. There is plans to install an event recorder on 611 during her restoration. There is other items noted to be added, but what these specifically are, it is not stated. The 611 already has modern (26L) brakes and MU capabilities, so these would obviously not be included.
lois

Overheard on the photo line during a UP 3985 trip in Wyoming in the early 1990s:

"Dang! They back up faster than NS goes forward!"

The same guy I mentioned earlier, one of those math whizzes that can do complex algebra in his head, once sat and, simply as a thought exercise, calculated the RPM of the alleged run of a N&W J class (70-inch drivers) on the PRR at 110 mph, and extrapolated that it matched, within one or two, the RPM of an 80-inch-drivered London & North Eastern A4 Pacific at 125-126 mph. Our speculation centered around whether an American loco could have set the record had it been equipped with large enough drivers.

At such a stage of speculation, your bigger problem is constructing a robust enough valve mechanism and drive train. The LNER Gresley conjugated valve gear tended to run hot on the big end when such high speed runs were made.

The one big difference between then and now is, Mr Claytor won't be at the throttle this time around.