Those cars were scrapped on site going on 10 years ago for that reason..

Shaker Heights #51, #52, #53, #54, #55, #60, #61, #62, #67, #68, and #69 are listed on the BHRA website as the cars stored at the Navy Yard, and are not listed in the Hicks-Hakner database (http://www.bera.org/pnaerc.html). The twelfth car, MBTA #3303, is (according the BHRA website) located in Red Hook with #3321, #3299, and #70, and is listed in the Hicks-Hakner database. Perhaps the #3303 was deaccessioned at a recent date, maybe due to severe damage from Hurricane Sandy.

Regarding the Pullman plant in Chicagoland: As I recall, the Pullman PCCs were built in the Osgood-Bradley plant in Worcester, Mass (which is probably why Boston bought Pullman cars). One of the experimental pre-PCCs was built in Illinois, but I think all the "production models" came from Worcester.

Is there anything left of the Osgood Bradley facilities?

For any Lots that were built (either as shells or final assembly) at the Osgood-Bradley plant, a "W" prefix was included to distinguish said Lots from those built at Chicago.

This included the entirety of Pullman's PCC production (excluding the 1934 prototype*), from Lot #W6569 (1938, forty single-ended cars for Baltimore, #7023-#7033 and #7306-#7334) to Lot #W6892 (1950-51, fifty single-ended cars for Boston, including the three acquired by BHRA, #3272-#3321).

*The single-ended PCC prototype was built to Lot #6445 in 1934.

Source:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

It seems that Pullman at Worcester built all of the special PCCs. St Louis Car built only the common design. Pullman built the PE's double-end, multi-unit cars; it built the Boston cars with the off-side doors, etc.

Some rumors have it stored indoors at Red Hook, along with a single truck car from Scandinavia that used to be privately owned at Sound View & Pugsly Aves. in the Bronx.

That is not an accurate statement, on a couple of levels.

1. For a "standard" car, there really was no "standard" PCC. There were many body variations, built by both builders, incluidng cars that were PCC bodies, but not with PCC trucks and/or control (MUNI "Magic Carpet" cars and Red Arrow "St. Louie" cars).

2. SLCC built the vast majority of PCC cars, but P-S built the most double ended cars. Both builders had quite a lot of variation from order to order. St. Louis also built double ended PCC cars (MUNI, Illinois Terminal), double ended PCC bodied, but non-PCC cars (MUNI "Magic Carpet" and Red Arrow "St. Louie") and MU cars (IT).

3. Both SLCC and P-S built cars for the massive CSL/CTA post war car order, which were not very standard in design at all, longer bodies, significantly different door arrangement and offset bodies.

There might have been some willingness on the part of P-S to vary the body design. SLCC never built a standee windowed double ended car, despite requests for such a beast. MUNI actually wanted a rear entry, front exit PCC, but SLCC refused to make it, so their last cars, the Baby 10s, had the standard-ish body.

David Wilkins
Transit Research, Utah

The SHRT cars were recycled, please see a post above where someone confirmed by suspicions. The BHRA website lists these cars as "whereabouts unknown" which is a nice way of saying "we failed to properly store and care for these cars, so we basically abandonded them until the landowner scrapped them."

As David mentioned, the Shaker Heights cars mentioned above were scrapped back in 2005. The BHRA website probably still lists them as extant because Mr. Diamond seems to believe that they were stashed at a secret facility somewhere by someone who wishes him ill. I'm honestly not certain of the status of 3303; last I knew it was located in a warehouse near the spot from where these three cars were just removed, but the fact that it wasn't part of the exodus is intriguing. My guess is that it's either still in the warehouse or was previously removed and scrapped.



Actually two pre-PCC experimental cars were built in 1934 at the Pullman plant in Illinois, and these two cars - Chicago Surfaces Lines 4001 followed shortly by ERPCC test car B (later Brooklyn & Queens Transit 5300) - were the last two streetcars built in the city of Chicago. Test car B was cut up in Brooklyn around 1938 but car 4001, or at least most of it, is still in existence at IRM.

That refers to Oslo No. 3, which has been at the Trolley Museum of New York for several years.

http://tmny.org/main.php?p=tmny0003

The single car was stored inside one of the buildings (follow the tracks...), it was fully restored and I think even operable, but the track caved in thus landlocking it. It was in there fairly recently ago, the people leasing the building just worked around it. I am sure it has been underwater atleast once or twice at this point.

I was informed by someone from one of the trolley museums who says he's "been there" that the car was moved in when an adjacent pier that the track was on was intact, and that said pier is now gone, probably in Hurricane Sandy. He said (and I would call his word "professional judgement") "The only way that car's leaving that building, short of a miracle, is in little bitty pieces. And it was supposedly badly flooded by Sandy, so there's no reason for a miracle." (He also shared some uncharitable, unflattering comments about the individual that is the main subject of this thread, but I'm not rumor-mongering here....)

Another point brought up by the same gentleman: At this point, absolutely nobody is buying or otherwise "saving" a PCC for the sake of preservation. All the PCC transactions of late have been for the sake of either "utility" PCCs (the NJT one at Baltimore, for example, now becomes the one to be refitted for handicapped access), spare parts, or speculation for future "heritage trolley" operations. In the latter category, there's San Francisco and San Diego.

Lots of interesting commentary here. I notice that the property owner included a cash stipend along with the cars, to aid in their handing off to a new owner. How often do you see a gesture like that?

On the other hand, I've lost count of how many characters I've met who sound like the tunnel-tour guy.

I've begun making regular trips to Brooklyn, and have so far seen the Navy Yard, the single-cylinder generators at Pratt Institute (pet the enginehouse cats while you're there) and cruised the Gowanus Canal. I don't care if I ever see another rusty PCC car, but I've got to go to Red Hook on the next trip to see that fantastic warehouse in the background of the newspaper photo.

And if you collect unusual movable-bridge types, check out the Carroll Street bridge over the canal. Everyone's seen swing, rolling, Bascule, and lift, but -- sliding?

Aarne Frobom
Not far from Brooklyn, Michigan

I'm confused, is the single truck car at the Trolly Museum of New York, as Evan says, or still inside the warehouse, as Mr. Mitchell says?

I don't see that as unusual anymore, Aarne. It seems like that's just a thing devlopers "do". I suppose in the old days they greased the palm of officials and union leaders. Now, they pay a different kind of "tax", in that there's an expectation that they'll be socially altruistic in this sort of way. At least in the big city. Compared to some things I've seen, that gesture was cheap.

Now, you saw the coverage from the NYC city rags - city papers like that are generally liberal to the point of socialist, and brutally hard on those dirty capitalist developers. Well, that same press treated the developer like rock stars, and now any risk of them being the "heavy" is gone. When the cars get scrapped, all the hate will get directed at Branford and Diamond.

And yes Sandy, it's bonkers that nobody considers PCCs for preservation (or more to the point, a daily runner at a museum). They are plentiful, well supported, you can coattail San Francisco, San Diego and Kenosha on procurement, simple to operate and robust. What's not to like?