This won't end well

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:26 pm

Let me clarify/correct a bit:

The OTHER PCC (the fourth one Mr. Diamond supposedly still had in "a warehouse") is still there in said building, and is the subject of the "ain't leaving intact" speculation. That was the "single car" I thought was being referenced.

The SINGLE-TRUCK GERMAN/NORWEGIAN car, in the words of the guy I referenced earlier: "Oh, the foreign single-trucker? That left [Brooklyn] years ago. I wanna say Kingston [is where it went]?" I'm assuming that it has been properly IDed as Oslo 3 and shown to be now at Kingston, NY.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:37 pm

robertmacdowell wrote:

And yes Sandy, it's bonkers that nobody considers PCCs for preservation (or more to the point, a daily runner at a museum). They are plentiful, well supported, you can coattail San Francisco, San Diego and Kenosha on procurement, simple to operate and robust. What's not to like?

Another car to maintain, keep out of the weather, protect from vandalism, etc.

I once had a loco owner say about his then-unused classics that were lingering in storage "Well, they don't eat much where they are." Another loco owner, whose locos are now in much better shape and running semi-regularly, laughed hard when I related that story to him, and said something to the effect of "A dead body doesn't each much, either, but they start to smell and get in the way after a while!"

wilkinsd · **Posted:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:57 pm

robertmacdowell wrote:

And yes Sandy, it's bonkers that nobody considers PCCs for preservation (or more to the point, a daily runner at a museum). They are plentiful, well supported, you can coattail San Francisco, San Diego and Kenosha on procurement, simple to operate and robust. What's not to like?

In another vein, there has been some reports, though not fully verified, that Brookville recycled their stash of former PTC/SEPTA PCC cars they were storing near their shops. The story, as reported, was that Brookville was renting the storage lot and no longer wanted to pay storage costs.

If true, a lot of PCC cars have "died" in the last five years, the Brookville cars, the SLPS/MUNI cars in St. Charles, MO and other cars.

As someone formally active in an organization that ran an PTC painted SEPTA GOH car regularly, I can attest to the reliability. It was a good "beater" service car and will continue to give a lot of good service.

Using one as a "beater" or utility car for your operation is worth considering. I know PTM in Arden has outfitted their SEPTA PCC car as a party car, with disabled access. Seems like that would be a good model, plus a potential marketing tool.

JimBoylan · **Posted:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:44 pm

train guy wrote:

I'm confused, is the single truck car at the Trolly Museum of New York, as Evan says, or still inside the warehouse, as Mr. Mitchell says?

I think that the "missing" and "restored" PCC car 3303 is inside the building, and the single truck #3 has escaped and is now at TMofNY.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:22 pm

wilkinsd wrote:

In another vein, there has been some reports, though not fully verified, that Brookville recycled their stash of former PTC/SEPTA PCC cars they were storing near their shops. The story, as reported, was that Brookville was renting the storage lot and no longer wanted to pay storage costs.

This is what was told to me by the same trolley museum guy in the previously-mentioned conversation--that they were "bought on speculation," and when potential operators saw the price tag of a finished rebuild, there were no (more) takers, so off to scrap they went.

wesp · **Posted:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:18 pm

Quote:

Using one as a "beater" or utility car for your operation is worth considering.

This was part of the rational at NCTM for acquiring TTC 4603 in 1996, followed by TTC 4602 in 2009.

Wesley

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:19 am

wilkinsd wrote:

In another vein, there has been some reports, though not fully verified, that Brookville recycled their stash of former PTC/SEPTA PCC cars they were storing near their shops. The story, as reported, was that Brookville was renting the storage lot and no longer wanted to pay storage costs

According to the Hicks-Hakner database (http://www.bera.org/pnaerc.html), Brookville owned the following cars:

PST #15/SEPTA #15
PST #17/SEPTA #17
PTC #2092/SEPTA #2092
PTC #2105/SEPTA #2105
PTC #2111/SEPTA #2111
PTC #2118/SEPTA #2118
PTC #2142/SEPTA #2142
PTC #2143/SEPTA #2143
PTC #2156/SEPTA #2156
PTC #2159/SEPTA #2159
PTC #2163/SEPTA #2163
PTC #2704/SEPTA #2704
PTC #2712/SEPTA #2712
PTC #2713/SEPTA #2713
PTC #2716/SEPTA #2716
Tandy #3
Tandy #6

The two PST cars are noted as body only and the thirteen PTC cars are noted as parts sources.

Were all of these cars cut up, or were some acquired by or held for interested parties??

artschwartz · **Posted:** Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:25 am

PST 15 & 17 are still at Brookville, on freight car trucks, as of the last time I was there. They were stored on the factory property, unlike the cars stored on the rented lot.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:48 am

Two other little details I forgot to mention about the "Brooklyn trio" from my source:

Branford is storing them at the famous "undisclosed location." And legal title to the cars was secured, through legal action, by the developers as "abandoned vehicles."

The cars will be offered to the usual medley of museums as parts sources, people who desperately want to park a PCC in their yard, etc. It is the realistic expectation of my source that they will end up being cannibalized for parts and scrapped, but stranger things have happened.

wilkinsd · **Posted:** Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:56 am

As far as "sourcing" parts, there really isn't much to maintain in a PCC. If you operate one or two, I'd recomend having an extra pair of traction motors, maybe a truck and a MG set handy. Other than that, the resiliancy of the technology, especially when properly maintained is amazing.

David H. Hamley · **Joined:** Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm **Posts:** 705

I can confirm that Brookville Equipment Corp. has scrapped the 13 ex-SEPTA PCCs formerly stored on a lot near I-80. At this point I'm not absolutely certain about the two ex-Leonard's Subway cars, but I think it's a safe bet those went too. The scrapping took place in 2013. BECo obtained those cars at some very modest cost, reportedly just the cost of transport from Philly in hopes that they, or parts of them, might find a further owner as a totally rebuilt car. The two PST Louies may meet that same fate eventually.

Frank Hicks · **Posted:** Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:19 pm

The version of the PNAERC roster currently online is a few years out of date; currently our webmaster is working on a complete rebuild of the site that will permit more timely updates, but until that's done I haven't been able to update the site. My more recent records suggest a total of 18 SEPTA PCCs in the field in Brookville, presumably all now scrapped:

2092, 2105, 2111, 2118, 2142, 2143, 2156, 2159, 2163, 2170, 2175, 2181, 2191, 2704, 2712, 2713, 2716, and 2780.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:33 am

Thanks to Art, David, and Frank, for the info on the Brookville cars!

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:59 am

Rainier Rails wrote:

According to the Hicks-Hakner database (http://www.bera.org/pnaerc.html), Brookville owned the following cars:

PTC #2092/SEPTA #2092
PTC #2105/SEPTA #2105
PTC #2111/SEPTA #2111
PTC #2118/SEPTA #2118
PTC #2142/SEPTA #2142
PTC #2143/SEPTA #2143
PTC #2156/SEPTA #2156
PTC #2159/SEPTA #2159
PTC #2163/SEPTA #2163
PTC #2704/SEPTA #2704
PTC #2712/SEPTA #2712
PTC #2713/SEPTA #2713
PTC #2716/SEPTA #2716

The thirteen PTC cars are noted as parts sources.

Were all of these cars cut up, or were some acquired by or held for interested parties??

Frank Hicks wrote:

My more recent records suggest a total of 18 SEPTA PCCs in the field in Brookville, presumably all now scrapped:

2092, 2105, 2111, 2118, 2142, 2143, 2156, 2159, 2163, 2170, 2175, 2181, 2191, 2704, 2712, 2713, 2716, and 2780.

According to Mike Szilagyi's Philadelphia Trolley Tracks website (http://www.phillytrolley.org/payenter.html), an additional four cars that were in storage at Midvale went to Brookville as parts sources, but never left Midvale and were scrapped on site in January 2006:

PTC #2098/SEPTA #2098
PTC #2117/SEPTA #2117
PTC #2150/SEPTA #2150
PTC #2748/SEPTA #2748

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:31 pm

This just crossed my wires, about a week late in finding and reposting it:

Quote:

Brooklyn Historical Railway Association's remaining PCC streetcar, the 3303, needs a home somewhere in the five New York City boroughs, preferably in Brooklyn. The 3303 is in excellent physical condition, measures 46' x 8.5' x 10'. The O'Connell Organization will generously pick up the tab for moving it to an appropriate site. If you can help, please contact Bob Diamond at [ rdiamond --at-- brooklynrail daught net ] .

This won't end well

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