Folks,

I may be getting involved with a locomotive that may be offered for preservation. Steam. Not yet truly "preserved" as we tend to think of it.

But the dreaded "A" word came up. Asbestos.

This loco has it. It's not, as far as I know, falling all over the place, but the jacketing has supposedly/reportedly loosened from years of neglect.

I could use some references to help for the decision-making process regarding abatement versus encapsulation, leaving in place, or whatever. The entity that currently controls this loco may or may not have the resources to do proper abatement/removal, the potential preservation recipients surely do not, and I can assure you that if the subject is raised, the Powers That Be will mandate full governmental standards (i.e. the most expensive way possible) to address such a mission. The topic has been raised once, and has already turned what could be a nice preservation project for a small museum into a "hot potato" instead. I'd like to give them a potential alternative to having to throw gobs of money around, with the prospects of one of those messy lawsuits to recover costs from some past owner or whatnot.

Various online resources I've seen so far, understandably, address asbestos in buildings and homes, but not outside exhibits behind fences at museums.

Get bids from multiple contractors. Prices can vary widely. With a little shopping around I've been able to get reliable, licensed abatement contractors, sometimes from over 100 miles away, who are very competitive.

Alan Maples

What Alan said......

Encapsulation is kicking the can down the road. It can be a short term semisolution assuming the locomotive is going to be kept in a climate controlled interior location.

The presence of acid forming byproducts of combustion in the asbestos insulation will eat the boiler shell away if it gets damp from either weather or simply temperature and humidity related condensation, not to menti0on its effect on the light metal jacket. The jacket goes first and the asbestos migrates out of the encapsulation.

When at that point in the future the encapsulation fails, there's a liability problem to be solved along with an abatement project now requiring notorious and emergency based response.

It makes the most sense in the absence of other compelling issues to solve the problem through abatement when you have a lot of time to shop for the work and get it done off site before taking on the locomotive at your facility.

dave

There may be a possibility of some low cost help, IF the locomotive is owned by a civic gov't or a not-for-profit. Reportedly, the Soo Line Pacific displayed in the Minot City Zoo had its asbestos remediation done by the local Air National Guard unit as a training exercise. The unit was already qualified for asbestos remediation.

Big danger is allowing a contractor free reign without supervision; they tend to like to take the "hot knife" to remove anything in their way. See if volunteers can remove major appliances, so the contractor can just pull the old jacket off the remaining studs and pipe nipples. If this isn't possible, impress upon them, and write into the bid spec. that jacket will be destroyed in preference to pipes, brackets, and studs. Given the choice of torching off a pipe or torching a big V to the edge of the sheet of jacket, they should do the later.

Encapsulation is viable in certain circumstances. Jacketed steam lines, like Barco steam connectors have asbestos under the jacket, but if not perforated, best not to even mention them. Likewise asbestos on the ground... The City of Marshfield, WI was having kittens because the engine had been stripped in place in pre-regulation days and asbestos MIGHT have fallen on the display track. They were thinking they would have to move the engine, remove the track, and haul all the ballast away as hazardous waste. They were advised to have a paving contractor spray a coat of blacktop sealant on the ballast.

Experience guides me to urge mitigation by removal of the asbestos and asbestos containing materials. We have all witnessed that over time the jacketing insulation especially begins to disintegrate and "weep" fibers. Protecting museum personnel and the public from the danger of contact or inhalation is paramount. We take that repsonsiblity very seriously.

The Nevada State Railroad Museum follows a protocol of embarking on a complete restoration feasbility study prior to deciding how to treat macro railroad artfiacts (the big stuff!). We are presently assessing conservation versus restoration of an 1896 Baldwin 2-8-0 narrow gauge locomotive. Before releasing the request for proposals soliciting the study team we tested the jacket and firebox bricks. Not unexpectedly the results came back showing 40% to 50% asbestos in those materials. (Baldwin replaced the boiler in 1924.) It would be imprudent to ask a study team to assess the locomotive with the known hazard, let alone expect personnel and volunteers to work on the locomotive.

We've gone out and obtained bids for removal of the asbestos which includes the construction of a complete encapsulation structure around the locomotive, including the ground plane. Cost for mitigation is estimated at just under $25,000. Our restoration crews will work closely with the contractor to assure the locomotive jacketing and piping is removed according to best practices. This is a large cost to the project but one which cannot be avoided if we are to do anything with the locomotive other than let it further dessicate in the desert sun.

Peter Barton
Administrator
Nevada Division of Museums & History

whoever you get make sure they are carefully guided where and what to do you don't want them using a cutter then oops go deep into the boiler or other appliances. Pretake some pics point out things, there may be issues that crop up in the middle of the process so be present when it is done, don't just hand it off to them.

You want to remove the asbestos completely, first time, correctly.I would avoid encapsulation unless it is temporary and removal is planned at a later date. Army or Air Force Nat. Guard might work where you are located. It worked in Maine for awhile, but was stopped in favor of contract service. It' s not the removal that is so difficult, but isolating and containing the fibers. I would believe a locomotive that has been outdoors for a long time would likely hold wet asbestos, which is manageable, but friable, dry, material is a dog. One other option would be to find a local company that deals with industrial steel applications. In all likelihood, they have people to handle hazardous materials, asbestos chief on the list. For a major tax write-off, you might get abatement in place of a cash donation.
The fees to have it removed commercially can be reasonable to ridiculous.

I thought the A word was seven letters long and you could spell it in a calculator if you accepted an 8 as an A.

Robby Peartree