Thanks to Mr. Presler for posting the article about this car in the Flimsies section.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2014 ... n/6797705/

What a remarkable find.

It is a beautiful find. The article says the car is to be repainted. This seems to be missing the point of recovering and preserving a car that is in such remarkable condition. I do not think that any other type of serious history museum would consider repainting an artifact like this. The original paint and its wheathering evokes the early 20th C like nothing else could.

Exactly, Mr. Ruiz.

I would agree, but ONLY if the car body is going to be preserved indoors. Outside, this thing will continue to deteriorate at an accelerating pace until it must be repainted to preserve the physical structure itself.

Quite correct, Mr. hamster. Not every rail museum has a climate controlled display space, or even a shelter, so repainting becomes a necessity.

Still what a gem stone! How did this car remain so well preserved? Do any other original bill boards exist?

OK, I know this will probably result in some "Are you nuts?" replies, but it's a serious question.

Would there be any way to preserve it without painting it? Could you clean the existing paint and coat it with some kind of clear coat? Lacquer, varnish, shellac, linseed oil, polyurethane, saran wrap? I'm not a painter, and I don't have any idea if any of those are viable options (OK, maybe the last one's a non-starter...)

Is there reasonable any way to preserve and protect the existing paint while keeping it visible, aside from indoor storage?

I presume they'll do a wonderful job on the paint, and it will look great, but as others have pointed out, this wonderful patina is something that deserves to be preserved.

I'd second bobharbison's idea, with one difference: use a clear coat (perhaps a good urethane) that could be dissolved from the old paint and wood if desired, and then prime and paint over that layer. This would allow access to any section of the original paint, either 'through the window' of the clear coating, or by selectively removing the clear coating, but also ensuring a smooth surface for the 'new' paintwork.

I wasn't suggesting to paint over it. The clear coat, using whatever product is appropriate, would simply preserve the wood. The existing paint, as is, would be visible.



Ever been to the Smithsonian Air and Space museum? Ever ask yourself how it is that most of those planes have perfect paint jobs?

I think this car presents quite a challenge in deciding how to proceed. I really like the patina, and if it were my decision, I would work to save the patina and display the car without running it. But I suspect that would be a fairly technical and delicate process that would require substantial expertise. It might be something like cleaning and restoring fine art paintings.

What is uniquely valuable about this car, besides its excellent condition, is the historical documentation of the billboard scheme. I doubt that that documentation exists elsewhere in photographs or drawings. It would be possible to accurately document the graphics, archivally preserve them, and then go ahead and repaint the car as new with the graphics reapplied.

If it were my choice, however, I would document the graphics in cad and archivally preserve them, but I would not repaint the car. Instead, I would preserve the graphics on the car with the patina.

If I were to choose to repaint, I would reapply the graphics with staggering effort to replicate them perfectly per the original. I would put similar effort into the paint job, workmanship, method, and materials as well. After doing that much work, I would not want to run the car.

But this sense of value that I and others place on patina is not shared by everybody. There is often a great zest for making an artifact new again rather than preserving patina. The difference in viewpoints on this is similar to the difference between the goal of static preservation versus the goal of operating the equipment. I don’t necessarily agree with the premise stated in the article that “Trains are more fun when they run.”

Many years ago, I was stripping the paint off the interior woodwork of a streetcar body for the Charlotte Mecklenburg Historic Landmarks Commission......one end of the car was stripped with a heat gun, which softened the underlying varnish and only dirty wood with varnish residue which needed to be chemically removed remained. The other end left the number 85 in place under the varnish residue, which positively identified the carbody as belonging to a car which was built in town, and made the last trip when the line was scrapped. I figure the number painter was working around the varnisher and one got ahead of the other on one end.

So, I might think about something like spar varnish as being useful for preserving underlying paint....but the condition of the paint needs to be considered: if it is already checked and peeling, it would be a very difficult conservation project. In the 1970s liquid nylon was used for consolidating paint, but it got a bad rep because it didn't stop pulling after the paint was consolidated which resulted in more problems.

I don't think anybody can make any recommendations unless they know something about conservation and have laid hands on the car in question - too many variables to be considered.

dave

The article says this is a billboard car. Would a car with advertising by the car owner technically be considered to be a billboard car?

The key part of my statement was "like this," by which I meant something in this condition. I am certain they would not repaint a plane of this era if its paint looked this good.

Their interior restoration of the Enola Gay was fairly light-handed, and I'd guess that most surfaces have been conserved rather that restored. As for the exterior, it sat outdoors for 15 years, mostly in D.C.

> The article says this is a billboard car. Would a car with advertising
> by the car owner technically be considered to be a billboard car?

I'd say 'definitely'. What's the purpose of billboards?

To me, ANY car with extensive or prominent advertising comprising a majority of the lettering, with prominent pride of place given the name or logo, would 'count'as a billboard car.

Ever see a billboard with 'Caught you looking!' on it? Owners can have prominent messages too; it isn't just the rental that makes it a billboard -- it's the bill (as in 'Post no bills').

Other viewpoints?

The last thing tol put on this car would be polyurathane. When it failed, there would be no stripper that could take it off without ruining the paint. Shellac and lacquer are easy to remove, varnish can be taken off without much damage.