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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned ALCO PA-2 in Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:46 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Dave wrote:
Given the great site in Brazil, why not develop it as a railroad museum? Makes more sense than bringing more rusting junk north. We can't take care of all we have now.

It's a problem of stability. It's rather difficult to maintain a collection in urban hell-holes rampant with poverty and therefore theft and vandalism. Look at the trouble Baltimore and Sacramento has had with stuff left in their "back 40".


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned ALCO PA-2 in Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:30 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am
Posts: 319
Thats exactly the point.... The locals tried to put a museum there and it didn't work out. The only thing the average local there is interested in is to make a few pesos by scrapping it. Doesn't matter if they own it either.....
It would cost alot to get it up here, but it could be worth it...maybe.....with lots of cash invested and a real plan for it to either go to a museum or earn its keep somewhere....


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned ALCO PA-2 in Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
Posts: 741
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Guess it depends on whether your organization's goal is simply to acquire a PA, or to save that particular PA in Brazil. Either is a worthy goal with varying degrees of plausibility and expense.
If it's the former, I was just suggesting pursuing the closest, most complete PA still available from a museum that happens to have two. Ex D&H #19, Exx ATSF 66L is at the Puebla museum on display in N de M colors it never wore in service. I'd love to see that one come back to the US. That being said, if the museum folks in Brazil (assuming you can find out who actually has title to the engine) are cash- strapped, they might be more willing to part with theirs.

As far as the PA in Brazil "earning its keep" as an excursion engine, from the pictures it appears to be devoid of its prime mover and other important components as well.

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David Wilkinson
Salt Lake City, UT


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned ALCO PA-2 in Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am
Posts: 319
From my point of view, you are right, the PA in Mexico is the better choice.....it just hasn't been available, at least not as "available" as the Brazilian one......
Why would having the Original prime mover in the Brazilian one be all that important? Sure it might be nice to have, but what kind of support is out there for 16-244's.... you might get power assys and injectors, but what about a crankshaft? Better off rebuilding it with a nice, easy upkeep 12-251, like the other survivors.....Its the trucks that are the biggest problem.....and if I remember right, there's a company that narrow gauged some EMD's a few years ago.....
Does anyone remember a few years ago seeing a 16-244 engine for sale? If I remember right it was in a basement in New York?


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned ALCO PA-2 in Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
Posts: 741
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
I do remember that 16-244 for sale-- on ebay of all places. I think it was about 13-14 years ago. It was inside a building of some kind and I think there was some discussion about it here on RYPN. I believe the seller thought it was much more valuable than it was, especially given the effort it would have taken to remove it.

It's certainly not impossible to rebuild a PA with a 251. The four ex-D&H PAs all received 251s-- it's just an added expense to factor into the equation.

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David Wilkinson
Salt Lake City, UT


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned ALCO PA-2 in Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 841
davew833 wrote:
Guess it depends on whether your organization's goal is simply to acquire a PA, or to save that particular PA in Brazil. Either is a worthy goal with varying degrees of plausibility and expense.
If it's the former, I was just suggesting pursuing the closest, most complete PA still available from a museum that happens to have two. Ex D&H #19, Exx ATSF 66L is at the Puebla museum on display in N de M colors it never wore in service. I'd love to see that one come back to the US. That being said, if the museum folks in Brazil (assuming you can find out who actually has title to the engine) are cash- strapped, they might be more willing to part with theirs.

As far as the PA in Brazil "earning its keep" as an excursion engine, from the pictures it appears to be devoid of its prime mover and other important components as well.


We seem to have forgotten how many YEARS of negotiations, regime changes, plan changes, agreements made then invalidated, etc., etc., etc. it took to get the 2 PA hulks from Mexico. That endeavor went on for a lot of years before it hit the foamer radar, mostly because the principals figured the foamers would try to insert themselves into the deal with various insane suggestions and ideas, making things even worse than they were.

As it was, it was a huge and expensive struggle just to get the two wrecks they did get, and nobody down there would even discuss parting with the other 2.

I recognize that that was then and this is now, but I'll bet it wouldn't be any easier, cheaper, or less frustrating and time consuming now.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned ALCO PA-2 in Brazil
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:39 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 275
I'd rather see the ex-D&H Century 628 come north than 2 more PAs.

CD


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