Business Car on the Great Western Railroad in Colorado?

Brian Norden · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:24 am

Hi,

Out of the blue, I received an email asking for information about the business car now on the (former) Great Western Railroad in Colorado. Now. I do not know anything about this car. The photos show a car with truss rods that has been steel plated on the exterior.

Does anyone know the origin and history of this car? It may be a former Northern Pacific car.

hi-plains · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:01 pm

Pure speculation, as I haven't seen any of the cars in years, but it sounds like the former NP Yellowstone. It would've been the last of three business cars in the GWRR's possession at one time [a fourth was an RPO rebuilt into "business" configruation].

The other two were Colorado & Southern #68 and a Union Pacific car of unknown heritage, both of which left the property as gutted hulks..

trolleyira · **Joined:** Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:22 pm **Posts:** 219

#68 was CB&Q #68 purchased from the CB&Q by Herb Sterns of Lincoln, NE. It was used for several trips out of Lincoln and I rode it several times.
After the storage space was lost at the Lincoln Depot, it was stored on the Omaha Lincoln & Beatrice Railway where it was severely vandallized.
It was then sold to the Great Western.

hi-plains · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:44 pm

trolleyira wrote:

#68 was CB&Q #68 purchased from the CB&Q by Herb Sterns of Lincoln, NE. ../..It was then sold to the Great Western.

I stand corrected on #68's heritage. I saw it very shortly before it left Loveland, its interior entirely gutted. I believe it went to a restaurant venture in Wichita, Kansas..

Notwithstanding, from Mr. Norden, could a photo of the remaining car be posted here, to verify its identity?

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:13 pm

Here's a Otto Perry photograph of the Yellowstone in Denver in November 1926: http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/57914 (Otto C. Perry Memorial Collection, Denver Public Library)

NP also rostered the Yellowstone River, one of three lightweight business cars built in 1955 by P-S in Lot #6952 to Plan #7645. The Yellowstone River is still owned by BNSF, and was recently refurbished for use as a conference car at the Fort Worth Headquarters.

Yellowstone River at the Topeka Shops in July 2012: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3114684 (Jeff Carlson photo)

I know of two other surviving NP heavyweight business cars: #2 Madison River (ex-observation #1716, Pullman, 1926, converted 1943) is on the Lake Whatcom Railway here in Washington, and the Jefferson River (ex-Pullman Boston, Lot #4211, Plan #2502A, 1914) is stored in Logan, OH.

Does anyone know the builder, lot, plan, and year built of the Yellowstone??

Sources:

1. Pictures located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

3. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

Jason Midyette · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:43 pm

Below is a photo of the GWR's Yellowstone, taken in Loveland Colorado in March of 2003;

I do not think that it is the same car as seen in the 1926 Otto Perry photo.

The Great Western Yellowstone is a steel sheathed wood car with a steel centersill that rides on trucks with NP casting marks. Its interior appears original and it seems to have always been a business car. The rounded roof was applied by the GW in the 1990's.

Jason Midyette

Jason Midyette · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:52 pm

Just found another shot of the GWR Yellowstone, taken in July of 2000. At the time, the car was stored in a building in the Loveland yards. The "rails" the car was on in the building were lengths of square steel tubing laid on the concrete floor.

Jason Midyette

Brian Norden · **Posted:** Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:06 pm

Good evening:

After my response identifying possible sources and after my posting here my correspondent replied to me with an email sharing information from Lorenz Schrenck who did a tentative NP passenger car roster about 15 years ago. I had suggested the NP historical group and also mentioned Mr Schrenck.

The quote is:

Quote:

Much of my railroad reference material has been sent elsewhere or is in storage, so my resources for answering your question are limited. Some of your information, as is often the case, is a mixture of fact and myth and wishful rumor.

I believe the car, GWR 1, is the former Northern Pacific business car 2nd No. 8. It was built in 1898 in the NP's Como Shops. It was not built for James J. Hill. He had his own Great Northern car. Instead it was built for the NP's president, C.S.Mellen. It was named "Yellowstone." In 1918 the car was assigned to the NP's USRA General Manager, J.M. Hannaford, and renumbered USRA No. A-116. At the end of USRA control, the car was returned to the NP and its original No. 8 restored.

The car was rebuilt at Pullman in 1921 with steel bolsters, end platforms, and sheathing. New 6-wheel trucks were installed to replace the original wood ones. It' was replaced as the NP president's car by a new car, 4th No. 1, also named Yellowstone, built by Pullman in 1924.

In 1926 car No. 8 was down-graded and renumbered to division superintendent's Car No. 1909. The car was removes from service in 1954. It was put on a sale list but found no buyer. In 1955 the car was designated supply train Diner-Dormitory Car No. X-589. It was re-designated Supply Car No. X-143 in 1959. In 1986 the car was sold to the Great Western Railway.

My sources are original NP records.

Lorenz Schrenk

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:21 pm

Here's another surviving NP heavyweight business car:

Thread from September 2003: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6964