Here is a photo of what appears to be a concrete milepost. Note the number; 2730. Rather high for a milepost I think. It is located on the now abandoned Kankakee Belt of the New York Central, about one and a quarter miles east of Tefft, Indiana. This line was originally the "Three I" (Indiana, Illinois & Iowa Railroad) which was a 200 mile line between Zearing, Illinois and South Bend, Indiana. If anyone has any idea as to what this concrete marker designates, the info would be greatly appreciated.

Les

My guess is that it's the distance in feet from some point. Perhaps this was at the clearance point of one end of a siding and the marker is telling train crews the distance to the clearance point at the opposite end of the siding. Train longer than 2,730 feet? You've got a problem!

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.

trains longer than the siding you will have to organize a sort of sashay pass, one train doesnt fit, 2nd train does, 2nd stops in siding and 1st moves out, both too long? swapping cars around the only way.

Les, if no one on this board can come up with the answer, I would suggest looking at the NYC engineering standard plans available from the NYCHS to see if this type of roadway sign is covered. If not, the National Archives (II) in College Park Maryland has the original valuation maps for the line in question, and apparently the NYCHS has access to a set of these that were kept updated by the railroad, though a CD for the lines west of Toledo has not yet been issued.

My guess: It identifies a drainage structure of some kind (bridge, culvert) that formerly existed at this location.

The other thing that 'might work' is that whatever it is, it's likely significant enough to be included on the rail property valuation maps. Remember two copies, one for the railroad, and one still in the national archives in Washington DC.

That seems to be a bit 'heavy duty' for a siding or clearance marker, I'm thinking more engineering station control point / survey monument marker here. But I'll happily be wrong as I'm by no means an NYC historian. I did see something rather similar to this on some NYC historic research we did in NY state and it was a survey marker with the engineering stationing; stone and carved in like that.

It's also likely the state regulatory commission was provided with a copy of the valuation maps. In Indiana, railroad regulation has moved from the utility commission to INDOT. There are also the Indiana State Archives. Indianapolis is a lot closer to N. Judson than College Park, MD, so asking there first might be a better approach.

Les, I just noticed your post on those concrete triangular numbered markers. They are chaining station marker post's wich were placed along the RR grade every 1000 ft. when the RR lines were surveyed / constructed. Your old RR valuation maps locate everything along the RR line by stationing and these numbers can be found along the bottom of the valuation map.

I have found these same triangular markers along the old NYC Norwalk Branch between Elyria and Milbury,Ohio. On the Norwalk Branch they were placed on the south side of the row. When the RR line was abandoned and the track ripped out most surviving ones were knocked over or busted up. When the bike trail was constructed in Huron,County i found several, some all busted up and others in perfect condition.

If i remember correctly from the few v-maps i have the numbers were higher going west. A few years back i stopped at the restored Elmore, Ohio LS&MS/NYC depot and got to talking with one of the guys that was doing work there. He took me down the street to a storage building they used and they had a whole pallet of those triangular chaining station markers! He didn't know what they were either! Of course i didn't either until about 15 years ago after hauling several home and keeping track of the numbers and locations where i found them along the line, then after obtaining a copy of a NYC RR valuation map from the Oberlin, Ohio area that showed them it all made sense. I also found out more about them from a retired NYC track guy on the internet.

When i get a chance i'll post a copy of the bottom of one of the v -maps showing them.

How far off the track or ROW is it? Is it further than you might expect for a mile post? It could be a property line marker. I know the NYC used concrete property markers in Canada, so I assume they were used in the US too.

Another possibility, although unlikely, is it is actually mile post 27.30. I don't think that i it though. It's really too short and the numbers would not be vertical for a mile post.

They're "chaining station" markers as per my above post. The NYC RR & LS&MS Ry. property markers are square and 6ft. long when out of the ground and are marked with recessed letters NYC RR Land Line or LS&MS Land Line.

The much smaller triangular concrete 4 number chaining station marker numbers coincide with the numbers on the bottom of the RR valuatuion maps. They measure 32" long when out of the ground.

What was the purpose of setting chaining station markers as opposed to mile posts? Did the NYC do this system wide? I've seen plenty of NYC mile posts in New York state, but I've never encountered a chaining station marker before, so I wonder if this was something that was confined to the NYC's various subsidiary lines in the Midwest. NYC mile posts in New York state are typically marked with the abbreviation "NY" for New York City and miles from Grand Central Terminal, e.g. "NY 125". Many of these mile posts are just rough stone slabs with hand-carved lettering, and appear to date from the 19th century.