I can hear the RyPN seagulls circling -- they like to fly into a discussion, make a lot of noise, and crap on everything.

On Trainorders, Chris wrote, "traction motors and fuel injectors are being salvaged, but the rest should be intact." Clearly this is not some scheme to lease the loco out. This is an above board effort to save a locomotive. I'll likely drop something into the hat myself.

After reading this, I thought Mr. Bishop may have had a good point. Then I figured, what better place to glean information from than the group's own webpage. Revolutionary, I know, but let's take a peek, shall we?

-First, they say the organization began in 2002 when the locomtives were saved because of the group's founders.

It also states that the non-profit organization wasn't founded until 2013.

http://dynarail.org/about.htm

So, one could surrmize that for those first 11 years, they did in fact lease the locomtives out in order to "pay the freight" when this was a private preservation concern, but before they had achieved bonafide non-profit status. There doesn't appear to be any evidence of leasing the two units (A F40PH and a SDP40F) out since then.

On their page where they discuss the potential for BN 6644, they state:

(Emphasis added)

This information can be read on their page at:
http://dynarail.org/projects/bn6644.html

Finally, if you have questions about what their goals are, future plans, etc., instead of speculating, you can actually contact them firsthand (Yes, I know it's not as fun as just making stuff up to post, but it will give you more accurate information). They can be contacted here:

http://dynarail.org/contactus.htm

Once again, as I stated before, the two locomtives are on display at Ogden Union Station, where they can be seen by the public. I do not think they are being leased to Union Pacific or Front Runner for use.

Finally, I have been wrong in the past, perhaps I missed something. If I did, can somone point to evidence of the following:

1. Evidence that this organization has leased the locomotives since forming the non-profit in May of 2013.
2. Evidence where the organization, since its formation in 2013, has stated that their intent it to lease the locomotives to freight railroads.

Thanks,

David Wilkins
Cowl Unit, UT

As much as I disagree with Mr. Bishop on this issue, I do not think that your statement is a fair characeterization of him or his general attitude.

As someone who has been called a "NNN" a "toid" and a "negatoid" I can certainly say that a lot of the negitivity on this board comes from years of hands-on experience in railway preservation.

I understand Mr. Bishop's caution, but in this case, I feel it is misplaced.

I will not pretend to speak for the savior(s) of Amtrak 231 and 644 and/or their plans regarding this F45.

What I can say:

The British (and Australian) groups that have been involved in diesel leasing have been mostly private owners, as far as I remember, not full-fledged non-profits like a large railway museum. The private owners, and many (if not most) of the loco ownership groups/societies, fall into something of a "gray area" between outright preservation and "rich people's playthings" (see also Pullman Rail Journeys, Bennett Levin, Doyle McCormack, Ross Rowland, Jerry Jacobson, Andrew Muller, Nelson Blount, etc.). Also in this category fall some private car groups.

First: As far as I am aware, the owner of 231 and 644 has not leased them out for operation since acquisition; indeed, I don't believe either is operable. Anyone who wants an F40PH for operation can still pick one up cheap off of VRE, Illinois Transit, or other brokers. Can he find someone to lease a loco for a good cause? Well, the ranks of railfan-friendly fanatics at the top ranks of major railroads seems to be thinning, but it's not a pipe dream.



Spoken by someone obviously clueless to the reality. Examples:
*Privately-owned ex-BR Class 55 Deltic D9000/55.022 Royal Scots Grey was hired in early 2011, due to a shortage of motive power, to haul aluminium ore trains between North Blyth harbour and Alcan's aluminium works at Lynemouth, a round trip of 36 miles daily. These runs, as inexplicable as the choice of motive power was, became for a time the most photographed/videoed goods trains in Britain, in spite of being in a not-quite-populous area. Videos are all over YouTube.
*The goods trains run with preservation-group-owned and private-leasing-group-owned EMD streamliners in Australia, likewise, have become some of the most photographed and video'ed trains in the Southern Hemisphere. If my understanding of the situation was correct, the preservation group(s) picked up "second-generation" EMDs with the same motors, engines, etc. as their preserved passenger streamliners, with the intent of leasing them to cover seasonal shortages of power to help pay for their "spares"; it instead became a revenue source to help assure the long-term preservation of the fleet.

Observe the near-fanatical followings of such locos as the NS and UP "heritage units" and executive/passenger locos. This gives the young generations of fans, the ones who grew up on P42's, SD70's and B40-8W's, something of the past to follow and relate to. Judging from the way internet forums would constantly buzz over 55022 aluminium moves and the Australian trains, any national rail preservation group or magazine should have found a way to underwrite those moves, or facilitate future such moves/leases!

As has been touted here many times, "'Non-profit' or 'not-for-profit' is a tax status, NOT a business plan." There are assuredly issues involved with operating a historic preservation mission like an income-producing corporation--tax, licencing, and whatnot--but any astute business managers would find no fault in any group pursuing such a plan, provided the revenues actually were put into long-term care and not in someone's pockets or beer tabs.

Now watch these linked videos, and imagine the spectacle if we dependably, reliably, and predictably stuck, say, a quartet of big Alcos or a sixtet of EMD F7's on a regular freight movement in an accessible area such as, say, suburban Chicago/Portland or Cajon Pass or Sand Patch. (Sure, we have the WNY&P and Delaware-Lackawanna--and half the internet chatter about them is "anyone know if they're running today and how big a train they got?")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaAhN7L40wY

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbUncEUbANk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYimjSWXEHE

Chiming in to clarify a few things:

#644, currently on DynaRail's roster, was indeed leased for a few years to local shortline Portland & Western Railroad by its previous owner, Northwest Rail Museum. I had no direct involvement in that arrangement, but it furthered 644's preservation on several fronts:

- it paid for 644's new turbocharger
- a good engine is a running engine
- revenue from that lease also funded new upholstery and paint on one of NRM's equipment, an SP observation car, used for annual Holiday Express fundraisers
- P&W took excellent care, returning it in better condition than before, including new wheels and rehabilitated sanding system

644 is still in operable condition. NRM deeded the unit to DynaRail last year, and be assured it is not our goal to run a leasing operation. Our objective is to return 644 to as-delivered Amtrak Phase I, but lots of work is needed on reconfiguring the nose to fill in the notches, and to address rust. If an opportunity for a short-term lease presents itself to raise funds, why not capitalize on that to further 644's restoration? DynaRail does not have a museum to charge admissions or run regular weekend excursions to raise funds, so some creativity is needed.

Due to equipment being vandalized in Portland, where #231 was stripped clean of HEP cables and had its windshield shot out, arrangements were made to bring them to Ogden, UT for several reasons: to get them away from the doomed storage space in Portland; bring them closer to my current location for ongoing work; and to make them publicly available on display, which had never been the case since they were preserved twelve years ago.

Hope this answers a few things raised here.

Not quite sixet of F7's on Cajon Pass, but here is a pair of FP9's in regular freight service taken less than a week ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6MnkPPWmks

(now where did I put that F9B?)

Cool, it just sounded for a while that this could have been an issue where the locomotives were both being on permanent lease after they were donated. If that had been the issue, I'd have had a real problem with that (in the context of asking for funds to buy a third).
Glad to hear that isn't the case. I badly wanted to be wrong about that, and I'm happy to find that I am indeed wrong on that point.

D Wilkins -
Point taken. Yes my characterization was off. Thankfully, none of those Naggling Negatoids of Negativity aboard in this thread. :)

In other news, who knew Portland had such fierce vandals. Shot out the windows?!! Jimmany.

Just out of curiosity, was the #231 stored in the same location as where the Friends of the 4449's 10RM-5DB sleeper Clackamas River was heavily vandalized??

In case anyone wants to know:

The Clackamas River was built in 1941 by P-S in Lot #6636 to Plan #4072D as the Rincon Hill for the City of San Francisco. The Rincon Hill was sold to SP on 12/31/1945, and became SP #9201 in 1950 (the name was also removed at that time).

Retired in 1966, it was one of several prewar cars sold to Verle Thompson for the Sioux Chief Traintel (a portmanteau of "train" and "motel") in Sioux Falls, SD. The motel closed in approximately 1975, and the cars were sold to various parties in 1988.

Moved to Portland in 1990, the Rincon Hill was painted in Daylight colors by the Friends of the 4449 and was used in excursions such as the Holiday Express.



The SP observation car is #2955, built in 1941 by P-S in Lot #6638 to Plan #7419A as a 41 seat seat parlor observation. Reconfigured to a 72 seat coach observation in 1963 as SP #2297, it was retired and sold in 1971 to the Stockton Terminal & Eastern RR.

The Northwest Rail Museum, founded by Ed Immel, later acquired the #2297 from ST&E as the NRM #2955 and was named James J. Gilmore. The #2955 is the only surviving SP round end observation.

NRM also acquired SP's unique 122 seat commuter coach #2202 from ST&E, which is now in service on the Oregon Coast Scenic RR. The #2202 was built in 1937 by P-S in Lot #6500 to Plan #7376 as 48 seat coach #2401, transferred to T&NO #453 (1939) transferred back to SP #2202 (1956) reconfigured to 66 seat coach (1961) reconfigured to 122 seat commuter coach (1965).

The Northwest Rail Museum of Portland, OR, is not to be confused with the Northwest Railway Museum of Snoqualmie, WA.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. Don Strack's UP passenger car roster pages: http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-index.php

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Pullman Richmond Shops page on the Sioux Chief Traintel: http://www.pullmanshops.com/traintel.htm

Yes, two cars apart on the same track. I suspect the person we caught on video surveillance vandalizing 231 (who was subsequently arrested, and as of today, still in prison) was the same person who tackled the sleeper a few months earlier. A shotgun was used to break the windows for entry on the sleeper, but they were unsuccessful on gaining entry to the cab due to Part 223 glazing. Equipment was located within a razor-wire fence; initially an opening was cut into the fence, but for later visits they dug under the fence.

There was concern that the sleeper was broken into for hard-to-find parts, but I found that unlikely since these guys weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer. In addition to stripping copper behind the toilets as well as the steam heating system, they also cut into the sleeper's air lines, so if they knew anything about rail cars, they wouldn't be cutting part way into the brake pipe to see if it was loaded with wires. I caught three people during a week-long stakeout in February '13, and following the implementation of a video surveillance system that, upon motion detection, transmitted live images with an alarm to my cell phone, four more.

For those keeping track, the total donated is up to $3240...

Total now is $3300. Maybe other donations will come in via other channels such as the PayPal link. Just two days left.

Here is a post about this effort on Railfan & Railroad news:
http://railfan.com/railnews/

Chris made the local news here in Montana tonight. The local NBC affiliate even put how to help out on their website.

Every little bit helps.

Steve

Thanks for the confirmation that it made the local news. Am hoping it reaches out to families in Montana with deep BN roots.

The video/article by NBC's KTVM http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/preservasionist-calls-on-montanans-to-help-save-historic-livingston-locomotive/26157360

With you guys being a 501c, isn't the MRL capable of getting a tax exemption if they donate the engine to you?

Joe