Actually John, I mentioned that they would have been better off using the Porta system instead of whatever they were doing, but nowhere have I actually read that they actually were.
http://portatreatment.com/hotw.htm
Does this look familiar? http://portatreatment.com/yours.htm

You may probably be lucky this thread is only called "844 boiler corrosion" - and not "844 boiler explosion".

Mike

Mr. Finders,

Not on this page nor by you......other pages, other people, other places. Very clear messages sent that this is Porta Style Treatment.

Poor Mr. Porta is crying in his grave someplace. Or....he simply knows the truth behind the fabrications.

Kindly,

JohnE.

One of the things I'm not understanding is that when Steve Lee retired, was the whole steam crew replaced? If not, the people who were part of the program should have known better. It just doesn't make sense to me.

For those longing for a procedure for everything, google the NPRM for 49 CFR 243 (Federal Register / Vol. 77, No. 25 / Tuesday, February 7, 2012).

For those who will eventually have to create such a compliant program, read it and weep ...

All of the Steve Lee era staff are gone. Now efforts are being made to eliminate anybody who talks to, works with, or otherwise has any connection with the past crew or contractors. Currently the two qualified boiler makers are the target.

If the purported problems with 844 are true, then it is possibly more of an indication of management problems, both people and locomotive, and not anything that more training or long lists of instructions and procedures can fix.

Management is an art form and something that not everyone has the talent for, nor the ability. Organizations that work the best, both rail and non-rail, for-profit and non-profit tend to stick to a managment philosophy where constructive input from all levels are allowed. Typically, managment structures where the lead person classifies himself or herself as a "dictator" are not great places to work. I know from personal experience. It doesn't mean you cannot be a strong leader, but it does mean that one's leadership must be tempered with the fact that you don't know everything.

These are lessons we can all learn and apply to our respective organizations, whether volunteer or paid employee.

You'd be amazed how far one can get in life by simply treating others how you wish to be treated.

I wonder what the people at Porta water treatment would say about this..."never heard from them, never gave advice to them, and If they claim this is the results of using our treatment, we'll take them to court over misrepresentation of product"?

This is what I don't understand one iota.

Railroads have, historically, been places of seniority and in-the-field training, where experience and firsthand knowledge count for far more than they do in the corporate world where leaders can fall prey to the latest business management fad.

I seriously cannot fathom a situation where circumstances would mandate wholesale replacement of a highly-specialized crew, trained in the use and maintenance of what for all practical purposes are unique artifacts. Several individuals? Maybe, depending on the egregiousness of the sin. The entire staff/crew? No. Maybe if you were gutting 844 and 3985 and putting diesels and chain drives in place of the boilers and rods. Or the ENTIRE division was plundering company monies, engaging in an international drug-running cartel or worse, joined al-Qaeda, etc.

In fact, such an accusation is so far "off the wall" that I have no choice but to skeptically demand proof, and relegate it to the "scandalous rumor fomented by those with an agenda" category until other proof is forthcoming.

I mean, you sack a whole crew for what we're supposedly looking at in the photos now, not to create that scenario......

Well there's this:

http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/2013/12/28/news/20local_12-28-13.txt

Which led me to the attached document (the complaint from the above-referenced lawsuit), which contains a list of people no longer employed in the shop,a mong other things.

DISCLAIMER: Of course, the allegations in the lawsuit are just that, allegations. Nothing in this case has been proven in a Court of law, and as such, they should be treated as allegations. You can allege just about anything in a Court here in the U.S. without having to prove it when you allege it. As Mr. Mitchell stated, all of this could just be a smear campaign against current management (a well-orchestrated one at that) or it could be true. I don't know, and am just providing the documentation for informaitonal purposes only. Buyer beware, your mileage may vary, etc.

That list is a little out of date, Mr. Wilkins. Several more names have since been added.

It is true that the entire previous staff was, shall we say, eliminated, methodically, one-by-one until they were all gone and replaced by new hires. Since that happened, almost half of those new hires have also been eliminated.

And 2 more lawsuits have been filed, as well. They just weren't publicized as well as the one you noted.

As ridiculous as it sounds, look at the list Mr. Wilkins posted below. Then consider that several MORE names have been added to that list since it was first published.

In essence, they got rid of more than 200 years of collective steam locomotive experience. They didn't do it en mass; one at a time. Those people were replaced with rookies, except in 2 notable exceptions where somehow, experienced people snuck in under the radar as new hires. One of them is already gone, now.

The entire existing crew now, including manager, have a collective 6 years of experience.

I do not even have a dog in the same time zone as this fight, but this seems like an example of smoke = fire.

Some might say it's been more than smoke. There have been a number of events, and more than a few critical voices, that point toward a problem in Cheyenne. The employee turnover, 844's flat spots, the runaway boxcar, and now excessive scale. In isolation these things could be written off as a freak accident, but all of these in a few years says something is wrong.

I am not going to pretend to know how to suggest a solution, but I hope this situation is sorted out.

Being a former Army Inspector General, I think it's time for the UP's equivalent of the IG from Omaha to go and visit Cheyenne and sort out the facts. If what I have read so far is true, or even partly true, then the UP has a serious situation to deal with. Surely they know and recognize that?

Where is upper management in all this? Since the UP has been named in a law suit, I would suspect that the UP's President or one of the VPs have started some kind of enquiry into the situation. UP is known and respected for its on-going steam program. To let the program be tarnished by one fellow seems unreal, but stranger things have happened I'm sure.

Thanks!

Only to the extent that no matter what one's management style is, it isn't an excuse for not properly taking care of a locomotive. We live in an era where things like water treatment, proper care and maintenance, performing regular blowdowns, etc. are pretty much mandatory and non-negotiable.

Safety and proper operating practices are non-negotiable.