Sir, the Greenbriar does not exist. It never did exist. The cars were never finished. It never turned a wheel, and the cars are now up for auction.

"IF"?!?!?

It's not operating at all!

oookay, that I did not know, just using the idea as a concept here. There are other "vacation" trains running out there just doing concepting. There's even a murder mystery train running out of Chicago, actors play up some mystery on the train.

With all due respect...... NO.

People ride the WP&Y for several reasons:
Cruise ships stop in Skagway. That's hundreds or thousands of prospective passengers. Per week, or even per DAY. All booked in advance for the tour, with the help of the cruise company, who came to have a scenic tour. Even if you forcibly detoured the entire Pennsylvania Turnpike through Orbisonia, you wouldn't get that kind of patronage--voluntarily, at least.

The scenery is spectacular. Central Pennsylvania looks spectacular and/or tranquil compared to, say, Hoboken or North Philadelphia or even southern New Jersey. But comparing Yukon (or, for that matter, the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, or even the Mogollon Ridge of Arizona or the Grand Canyon of Pa.) to central Pennsylvania is like comparing a five-story Holiday Inn Express to the Chrysler Building.

The WP&Y has vintage rolling stock, to be sure, but it also has dozens of new cars, built in the late 1990s and 2000s, with modern conveniences such as wheelchair lifts (at least one car), sound systems, etc. The "workhorse" locomotives have been thoroughly overhauled and rebuilt. This isn't a "museum" operation, but a commercial tourist attraction trading on its scenery and heritage.

Disneyland? The ultimate example of artificially-contrived, packaged, sanitized-for-your-protection tourism, to the extent that it is the stereotype, the exemplar, the be-all and end-all of crass commercialism and "brainless" tourism to the snobs of travel and culture.

People claim to want "authenticity" and "realism" in their "history tourism," but perhaps only 1% of tourists at best--and more likely, 1/100th of 1%--actually want to have to shovel up "Amish buggy exhaust," use a privy, cook raw animal on an open hearth, forego air conditioning or refrigeration, contend with rattlesnakes in the wild, navigate with a map and landmarks, have to refill a canteen from the creek, build a lean-to in the wild to shelter overnight, or be in shape to hike several thousand feet up and/or down a rugged trail from which they might actually slip and fall. And I won't even discuss being out of cell-phone or wi-fi range.

Now, to bring about the commercial success of these other attractions at the East Broad Top, (or, for that matter, Cass, Cumbres & Toltec, etc.) you'd only have to do a couple things:
1) Move the railroad to Williams, Arizona; Lancaster County, Pa.; the White Mountains of New Hampshire; Aspen, Colorado; Williamsburg, Virginia; a New Jersey beach town; or any other highly-trafficked tourism areas within a day's drive or so of a major metropolitan area or attractive enough by itself to be its own destination. Or, conversely, move a major metropolitan area to Lewistown, Altoona, or the like.
2) Surround the terminal at Rockhill Furnace with a "theme park" that includes a hotel, motel, a selection of eating establishments (sushi, anyone?), clean restrooms, gift shops, rental strollers, etc. And then let other stores and shops open across the street or in town--the antiques shoppes, the boutiques, the brewpub, the "general store," the TGIMcOliveBenniBee's, etc.
3) Build realistic-looking replica EBT trains with modern boilers, retention toilets, a dining/lounge car with drinks, etc. that you can wear out with impunity.
4) And last but not least, put log flume rides through the tunnels up the hills, and convert Three Springs, Saltillo, and Robertsdale to destination villages with their own complements of themed attractions--Three Springs can be the water park, Robertsdale the Mining Camp........

(And all of a sudden I'm fixated on finding the closest sushi to Orby/Rockhill..... Lewistown or Altoona, apparently....)

Stop!...Stop!...you're killing me! 13 pages of some of the funniest stuff I have read in a long time!

You kill too easily.

Cass doesn't have a Denny's across the street. The closest motel/hotel to Cass is give or take 20 miles away on a twisty mountain road. There's no cellular service anywhere in the county where Cass resides. The closest "highway" of any substance to Cass is how far, compared to 15 minutes to the PA Turnpike? Tell me again how being in such a remote location is the bane of the EBT's existence?

I think the white elephant in the room that everyone seems to ignore is the simple fact of gross mismanagement on the operational level. I've witnessed first hand how Mr. Kovalchick would do anything and everything to give his employees what they needed to be successful, but management in Rockhill refused to ask for anything, refused to break from the norm, etc.

For what it's worth, a "grassroots" campaign was begun over these last 3 years. Several serious attempts were made, with money in hand, a formal board of directors assembled, tools in hand, numbers crunched. If the owner was willing to accept an offer from a legitimate organization with more than one board member, members who know what needs to be done to make it a successful venture, know the ins and outs of the unique, quirky traits of equipment on the roster, you'd have heard about it by now, wouldn't you?

The simple fact is, you can want to that trainset with all your heart. You can have the investor(s) lined up ready to sign the check. You can have a plan, complete with numbers, ideas, and a budget. BUT, if the owner refuses to call or write back, your plan means absolutely dick.

Buck up and swallow reality like the rest of us. Accept the fact that whatever happens, happens. And whatever happens, and I say again, it ain't because we didn't try.

Sandy, that's it. Great idea. Simply awesome!

All we need to do is dig a canal so we can get those cruise ships to the EBT. Grab your shovels, boys!

OK, now I'll go hide under my rock again...

;-)

Steve Hunter

See also: hamster wheels, dead horses, B&LE 643 and Baldwin Sharks

This has been both entertaining and enlightening on many levels. The EBT is an excellent case study of the economic tensions between preservation, restoration and commercial tourism.

As soon as I see the Notice to Mariners announcing the lock and bridge operation schedules for the Aughwick Creek Ship Canal the Julia M will be under way. In the meantime I will happily spot the cost of a couple of shovels.

GME

I'm not prepared to dispute this, so what "vacation" trains are out there? Except perhaps
the Canadian cruise train?

And if there is a murder mystery train running out of Chicago, what train is it and how often does it run? I do know that murder mysteries are played out on some tourist trains and dinner occasionally, but I'd like to know more about this one, since I will be in the Chicago area next month and would like to partake.

Thanks.

Methinks he has Pullman Rail Journeys in mind......... not very well, but in mind.....

Thanks, Sandy. I did not know Pullman did that kind of thing.

AFAIK they don't do "murder mysteries."

you don't want to turn EBT into a Disneyland mecca. But it has outside railroad connections and getting a trainload there wouldn't be...that big.. of an issue.

I think there is enough there as it is to make it fun and interesting still. You just have to figure out the ways to do your marketing.

The line is bigger than the actual operating excursions that were run, I just wonder if they would expand the running.

http://mysteryltd.com/murder-mystery-sh ... ery-train/

theres the murder mystery train.

http://www.viator.com/tours/Chicago/Lux ... 3-59252NOL

theres the New Orleans train.

http://www.travelpullman.com/

The Pullman group has trips to New York, think if they could direct a trip to EBT and other museums.

Well why not build a luxury resort like the one at Raystown Lake in Rockhill and/or Mt. Union? And advertise it on billboards nationwide, along with the EBT?

I don't know why the management refused to ask for whatever they needed from Mr. K. We do need better management, but who would do that for us?