2100 photos for those interested in oil burner modifications

Becky Morgan · **Joined:** Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:22 pm **Posts:** 495

I'm somewhat familiar with a waste oil filter system (hand-spun or power-cranked) in use for small riverboats, but its main purpose is to remove water, sludge, any metal shavings and anything unusually light or heavy from the oil. That operation sounds...interesting...and as for the loudest voice being the obnoxious one, haven't we all seen that at one time or another?

I take it the problem with the improper burner design on 2100, and the warping that I think I see in the pictures, is like high cholesterol--a symptom, not necessarily the disease. If anyone does restore 2100 sometime, considering the expense already necessary for a big rebuild, it would seem foolish NOT to replace the firebox lest there be damage that doesn't show.

How much information will an ultrasound actually give about the soundness of the metal? Obviously it can measure thickness, but does it reveal much about crystal structure, or would that take other methods?

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:27 pm

I assume these are the photos that show "warping."

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss12 ... C05267.jpg

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss12 ... C05174.jpg

I can't say anything looks "warped" to my eyes, but I'm not an expert, so you may not want to take my word on that.

Having said that, a good inspection of everything, even the precaution of a new firebox, is likely good advice, even allowing for the very short time this locomotive was run after its overhaul in Hagerstown.

Now, the first question becomes, how do we get this engine "home," or at least to a better home than where she is now? How do we pay for it?

daylight4449 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:38 pm

J3a-614 wrote:

I assume these are the photos that show "warping."

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss12 ... C05267.jpg

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss12 ... C05174.jpg

I can't say anything looks "warped" to my eyes, but I'm not an expert, so you may not want to take my word on that.

Having said that, a good inspection of everything, even the precaution of a new firebox, is likely good advice, even allowing for the very short time this locomotive was run after its overhaul in Hagerstown.

Now, the first question becomes, how do we get this engine "home," or at least to a better home than where she is now? How do we pay for it?

Those would be the pictures I'm looking at.

As for bringing it [2100] back east, you'll need good organization, fundraising and a good business plan. I'll cite NESCo's structure as a potential template...

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 841

Pegasuspinto wrote:

I just touched base with a 'certain steam operations' fireman, wanted to set the record straight-used motor oil was used, at first, straight from the tanks of local auto shops. That didn't work so well, not because of the used oil, but because of the contaminates in it. In that time, it would of been pretty common to dump -every- waste automotive fluid into the same tank. From what I can see, plenty of groups can and do use used motor oil, but it goes without saying you can't suck the sludge off the bottom of every local shops tank and run.

They used transformer oil, certified and tested to be PCB free, that fired quite well. (the utilitys spend plenty of time keeping the PCB free oil out of the PCB bearing oil, because if you pour non-PCB oil into the PCB tank, that simply adds gallons to the hazmat disposal fees). Busybodies shut that down and it turned out to not be worth the fight to prove the oil was OK for use.

Machine oil from local paper plants was used, and it fired just fine too. But I don't think they were producing the oil in the quantity needed for longer trips.

Diesel was used on the longest trip, over some of the crew's objections. They were not the first crew to find out that you can't get enough heat out of it, nor were they the last. Some flashbacks occurred and eyebrows did get lost, but that was due as much to the engineer running as anything. The stories of the charred cab are a bit exaggerated. And the refusal of the good fuel-just remember the loudest, most obnoxious, and poorly behaved of your group will be presumed to represent your whole group, either hide them from the public or get rid of them. You may have to pay for it long, long after they are gone....lesson learned, I hope.

We may be speaking of different crews/locomotives/incidents, because this kind of
stuff has happened to several.

In this case the "loudest, most obnoxious and poorly behaved of the group" was the president of the group. And that, too, has beset several groups. Most of which don't run any more.

One of the issues with burning stuff that was never intended to be fuel in the first place is that you may end up with a flash point that is far too high. IOW, the firebox must be kept hotter so the stuff will burn, so you use more, you end up wasting water trying to keep the pops from opening, etc.

Another issue is that when you start mixing various things to make fuel, especially if you are using drainings from someplace, is that you have no idea what you'll end up with when it's all poured together. Some additives and formulas don't play well with others.

thunda · **Joined:** Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:49 am **Posts:** 21

One of the most painfull days I've heard of here in Australia, is of a crew trying to get an oil burning 2-8-0 to go with hydraulic oil that came from a sawmill via their normal waste oil supply.

Only when the followed up the poor state of how the oil burnt were they informed that it came from a sawmill who had put flame retardants in the oil to reduce the risk of fire within the sawmill...... Almost an impossible day for the crew and it was only the temp of the firebox that allowed some combustion to keep going. A normal day was around 800L of oil for 2 return trips, this day was closer to 2000L.

Shows it really does pay to know exactly where any oil supply is coming from and what is in it/may have contaminated it.

nkpsteam779 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:45 am

Very nice photo's.

Best Regards

Steven Harvey
American Steam Railroad

bigjim4life · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:23 pm

nkpsteam779 wrote:

Second, if the locomotive was to return east or located itself in a area for rebuild. A major level set needs to be done in everyones head is she'll have to prove herself by running on a shortline railroad or a tourist railroad for a year or more until both the crews and the locomotive have proven out they are ready for the big time long distance trips.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think the "return east" was to just physically bring the locomotive this way via truck/depressed center flat car of some sort - and then restore it and run it out here. Not to have it restored out west and then run it to the east coast.

nkpsteam779 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:33 pm

bigjim4life wrote:

nkpsteam779 wrote:

Second, if the locomotive was to return east or located itself in a area for rebuild. A major level set needs to be done in everyones head is she'll have to prove herself by running on a shortline railroad or a tourist railroad for a year or more until both the crews and the locomotive have proven out they are ready for the big time long distance trips.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think the "return east" was to just physically bring the locomotive this way via truck/depressed center flat car of some sort - and then restore it and run it out here. Not to have it restored out west and then run it to the east coast.

Don't know.

Dave · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:31 pm

Has anybody been approached by NS to take on another steam locomotive apart from those they have already in the works? Have they expressed an interest in a Reading T hog of all possibilities out there?

I think anticipating such an event in the absence of evidence and presuming the paperwork is in order are not the basis for a legitimate proposal - or a proposal for somebody else to write a proposal, which is never a good thing.

Do we even know she is for sale and under what conditions, and whether the offer to sell is realistic?

dave

nkpsteam779 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:30 pm

Dave wrote:

Has anybody been approached by NS to take on another steam locomotive apart from those they have already in the works? Have they expressed an interest in a Reading T hog of all possibilities out there?

I think anticipating such an event in the absence of evidence and presuming the paperwork is in order are not the basis for a legitimate proposal - or a proposal for somebody else to write a proposal, which is never a good thing.

Do we even know she is for sale and under what conditions, and whether the offer to sell is realistic?

dave

Dave,

You are correct. Just gave me two cents if someone had there ducks in order and was going to do something with the locomotive. Oh well maybe we'll see what happens down the road.

j32885 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:51 pm

It seems like some of you have got some ideas on bringing Reading 2100 back to life. The biggest challenge is getting the streamer back the eastern side of the Mississippi, and before any kind of new restoration work can be done.

It sounds like the current owner has lost title to the engine. Should we say it’s time for “Fire Up 2100!?!?!?”

Questions:

How come Richard Kughn part owner of the “2100 Corporation” didn’t bring the steamer to Michigan?

Richard Kughn lives in Michigan. He was then Owner/CEO of Lionel Trains. Lionel was headquartered in Michigan. Lionel made O-Scale models of Reading 2100 & Reading 2101 as the “Chessie Steam Special” back in 1991. The steamer could have been transported from Maryland to Owosso, Michigan home of Pere Marquette 1225 and the Michigan State Trust for Railway Preservation (Steam Railroading Institute). CSXT was steam friendly at the time and could have covered the costs.

Did Jerry Jacobson ever wanted to owned Reading 2100?

After Maryland, the steamer went to the Wheeling & Lake Erie, and then on words to the Ohio Central. The then owner was the Portage Ohio Regional Transportation Authority (PORTA). 2100 was stored and worked there. RDG 2100 did a series of Test Runs on the Ohio Central before being sold again and shipped off to St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada for the Oil Conversation.

Here are some pictures and videos of Reading 2100:

2100 in Ridley Park
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TvjeLj4I4U

Reading 2100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kl3-gxuUvs

BIG OHIO STEAM - Reading 2100
http://www.steamohio.railfan.net/2100.html

Reading T-1 No. 2100--runby at Dennison, OH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4LmEODk350

Reading T-1 No. 2100--60 MPH pacing on the Ohio Central
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mP-vrw1HD8

Reading 2100 St Thomas 6-25-1998
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcvy18z-JjE

Golden Pacific Railroad's Tacoma Sightseer Excursion - Reading 2100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1hfhrTvr3s

Reading 2100 Runbys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFMtktpjum4

Enjoy! ^_^

co614 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:08 pm

Sorry to have to spoil this dreamfest with the facts but here they are;

1. 2100 is now "owned " by the friend ( still?) of Tom Payne who loaned Payne $ 1.5Million (US) and took a mortgage on the locomotive. When Payne defaulted on the mortgage he took ownership and had it sent to the desert where it is now, for storage.

2. You can be the new proud owner for a mere $ 1.5 million (US).

3. There's zero doubt that to run again she'll need a new firebox and EXTENSIVE running gear repairs. My WAG would be that you're looking at somewhere between $ 3.0-$ 4.5 million to get her back in good shape. The really bad news is after all that you'll still have a 1920's technology machine with friction bearings and a ZERO mainline future.

4. Based upon the sad facts at issue the best we can hope for is that somehow she gets adopted by a railroad museum somewhere out there and becomes a nice display piece.

Sad but true. Ross Rowland

Emmo213 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:13 pm

j32885 wrote:

It sounds like the current owner has lost title to the engine. Should we say it’s time for “Fire Up 2100!?!?!?”

Perhaps "Legal Up" would be a better phrase.

Similar to the 614 thread there's so much more involved than just wishing it to happen. If you really want to "fire up" something find a group that has an engine available and is looking for donations and/or help. I can think of at least 6 in the Michigan/Ohio/Indiana area.

Richard Glueck · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:37 pm

My opinion carries no water in this discussion, but having reviewed the photographs brought forward, I can not honestly state I see siphon tube warping, as I earlier opined.

I refuse to accept this as a "lost cause". I would offer that as lead loco of the class, as an anthracite heritage steamer, she's a better fit in the northeast than in the northwest. There's plenty of good locomotive left in 2100, and whether the firebox requires rebuild or not, discounting her as a viable engine is just wasteful. Finding somebody to fund or adopt the locomotive is another situation altogether. But consider this idea, straight out of left field: Would Union Pacific or BNSF consider trading her as a freight car load in return for use of NS Heritage Diesels for a special event or "Welcome Back the Big Boy" celebration? Somebody still needs to pony up the price of the locomotive, but this could be an avenue to bring her home for restoration.

For gosh sakes, swing for the fences!

co614 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:50 pm

Mr. Glueck, with all due respect, if you so hot to see a RDG. T hog run again the 2124 at Steamtown ( the only T-! equipped with roller bearings) and Andy Muller's 2102 can be restored for a TON less money than it will take to get Tom Payne's disaster rebuilt.

That's the sad reality. Let's be honest, the chances of someone raising $ 5 million bucks to rescue the 2100 is between slim and none....and slim left town.

Ross Rowland