Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:08 am

Rainier Rails wrote:

Another Mystery Car:

341. In a thread from January 2002, ge13031 mentions a sleeper that had served as the office at Hartland Yard (W&LE): http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2602

ge13031 wrote:

Nov 2000 we were notified that WLE was scrapping their "office" at hartland yard. The office is an ancient sleeper that had been all over NKP and NW in different locations. The car sat on a piece of track off the main line and was surrounded by skirting. Removal of the skirting revealed all the running gear and a pair of six-wheel trucks. Hulchers moved the car 75 ft (sideways) and set it back on rail. The car was pushed into the yard and we checked and found the brakes working, with no leaks and the jounals half full of oil. WLE towed the car to Lake Junction, onto the L&WV with no problems. Plans are to convert the car to a food/beverage/buffet car for the tourist line. I have to thank WLE for being very cooperative and making the whole operation quick and simple.

Does anyone know the identity of this car? Thanks in advance.

Well, here's some additional info, from a thread from October 2003: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7290

ge13031 wrote:

In about two hours Tom was able to pin down the identity of my much abused ex-tourist pullman to two cars sold to the NKP in 1947.

Well, that narrows it down to either:

Dinant (Lot #4356, Plan #2410E, 1916/43, 12S-1DR)--Tourist #2560

Dwight (Lot #4565, Plan #2410F, 1920/43, 12S-1DR)--Tourist #2573

Does anybody know which one of the two cars ended up as the office at Hartland Yard? Thanks in advance!

Source:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:03 am

Additional Info:

Back on page #7

Rainier Rails wrote:

205. Arsenal Tower (Lot #4844, Plan #4090F, 1925/42, 8S-1DR-3DB, ACL, ex-McPhail)--sold to ACL (1948) to Steamtown NHS--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=887794 (Daniel Barnett photo)

From a thread from March 2001: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1530

Dave Crosby wrote:

Here's a question on the Breslin tower. When working for Steamtown NHS, the park was involved in a swap of several cars in Scranton for several in Essex CT. As part of this trade we acquired the ACL sleeper "Arsenal tower".

AL P. wrote:

Rmne Traded the Arsenal Tower after we purchased Breslin Tower, because Breslin tower was in superior condition to Arsenal Tower and Had some New England Heritage. We also didn't need two Pullmans in our collection to the same plan.

H Pincus wrote:

When RMNE was prepping "A.T." for the move to Scranton, we gave the car a quick dip job. No matter how good the running gear and brakes may be, a faded, shabby carbody does not endenger confidence on the part of the car inspector.

From page #2 of a thread from September 2002: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4075

Howard P. wrote:

Pullman heavyweight sleeper "Arsenal Tower" was traded to NPS by Railroad Museum of New England in 1993. In 1991, RMNE traded the CNJ outside-braced boxcar and the DL&W double-sheathed boxcar (now on display inside the roundhouse) to NPS for a CV outside-braced boxcar and a B&M wood caboose (aka C&C #50). The CNJ and DL&W cars were loaded onto TTX flats at Essex in early 1995, and "Arsenal Tower" was prepped for movement on own wheels, and the three arrived at Scranton about two days before the Grand Opening in July 1995. We (RMNE) painted the "A.T." and relettered it so it would look a bit better for the trip.

From a thread from November 2003: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7382

Dave Crosby wrote:

I happened to pick up a postcard of the Middletown and Orange RR of New York state.

Few questions here. When did this railroad start and finish operation? What factors were behind its demise? Was there additional equipment?

Howard P. wrote:

The M&O was the name given to the steam tourist operation over the Middletown & New Jersey RR, conducted by Empire State Rwy Museum between 1962 and 1966. The M&O name was applied to a DL&W Boonton coach and possibly applied to a CNJ coach owned by Steve Bogen. The two cars, along with other ESRM equipment, including the 103, the CNW 7409 combine and the SSW "branchline" 50-foot caboose, came to Essex in 1970-71. Much of that equipment later was transferred to RMNE.

Howard P. wrote:

ESRM owned a heavyweight Pullman, "Arsenal Tower" and an ex-NYC/D&H heavyweight diner, both of which lived at CNJ's E'port shops before going to Essex in 1969.

So that fills in the history for the Arsenal Tower:

205. Arsenal Tower (Lot #4844, Plan #4090F, 1925/42, 8S-1DR-3DB, ACL, ex-McPhail)--sold to ACL (1948) sold to ESRM (1964??) sold to CVRM (1970) transferred to RMNE (when??) traded to Steamtown NHS (1993) moved to Scranton (1995)

Source:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:20 pm

Back on pages #1, #2, and #3:

Brian Norden wrote:

Orange Empire has two Pullmans:

1917 Built CORYDON which has 7 Compartments and 2 Drawings Rooms. Sold to 20th Century Fox in 1944. It is missing various do-dads.

Jim Baker wrote:

PSRM, Campo, CA has the COMMANDANT, a 1915 sleeper/lounge/observation car.

Rainier Rails wrote:

11. Commandant (2nd) (Lot #4353, Plan #2521B, 1915, 10S-buf-lng-obs, SOU)--sold to 20th Century Fox (1944) to Short Line Enterprises (1972) to Railroader Restaurants (1973) to PSRM (1984)

12. Corydon (Lot #4529, Plan #2522B, 1917, 7C-2DR)--sold to 20th Century Fox (1944) to OERM

More info, from a thread from February 2004: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8438

Brian Norden wrote:

The COMMANDANT, built December 1915, is listed as having been sold to 20th Century Fox as of April 24, 1944. At the same time the film company also acquired CORYDON, a 7 Cmpt-2 DRm car from 1917. About 1946-47 20th Century Fox acquired two UP (OSL) "Harriman" coaches from 1911.

In time, these cars were obtained by Short Line Enterprises and then sold off by them. One of the coaches went to the Sierra Ry and is now owned by the State of California at Jamestown. The other cars went to a stillborn restaurant project. I belieive that the COMMANDANT went on to San Diego Ry Museum. The CORYDON went to Orange Empire Ry Museum as did the other UP coach.

So, therefore:

12. Corydon (Lot #4529, Plan #2522B, 1917, 7C-2DR)--sold to 20th Century Fox (1944) to Short Line Enterprises (1972) to Railroader Restaurants (1973) to OERM (1984??)

For the record, the 2 OSL coaches were:

OSL #683:

Built in August 1911 by Pullman in Lot #3838 to Plan #2387 as 68 seat coach #98, renumbered in July 1915 to #683, retired in January 1949 and sold to 20th Century Fox, sold in 1972 to Short Line Enterprises, sold in 1973?? to Sierra RR #11, to Railtown 1897 in 1982.

OSL #692:

Built in September 1911 by Pullman in Lot #3838 to Plan #2387 as 68 seat coach #107, renumbered in 1915 to #692, retired in January 1949 and sold to 20th Century Fox, sold in 1972 to Short Line Enterprises, sold in 1973 to Railroader Restaurants, sold in 1984?? to OERM.

I know of at least one other OSL coach from Lot #3838 which is extant:

OSL #682, built as #97 (September 1911), which is now owned by Iowa Pacific as Mount Hood (MH) #1080 Timberline--see here: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36455

In addition, OSL #110/#695 is listed as going to a café in Pomona--is this car still there?

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Don Strack's UP passenger car pages:

___2a. Main index: http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-index.php

___2b. The Lot #3838 OSL coaches are on this page: http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-numbered-1.php

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:20 pm

Back on pages #2 and #3:

M.J. Kershner wrote:

C'mon Kurt, have you forgotten George had Traffic Club? FWIW it's in the yard in Thorpe, for sale by the R&N.. End door is open.

I was in it when George was still alive. The upper berths are intact, and the seat-backs are still in the section walls. Otherwise it pretty well lost its' ambience during years of MOW service.

Rainier Rails wrote:

8. Traffic Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989N, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR)--sold to PRR #8627 (1948) to pvt. owner to RBMN (reported for sale)

More info from a thread from March 2004: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8831

K.R. Bell wrote:

Here's an all-time equipment roster of Rail Tours I've compiled, 1962-2001; sorry its so jumbled in email format, but here 'tis:

Rail Tours, Inc. All-Time Equipment Roster (c.1962-2001) George M. Hart, Jim Thorpe, Pa.

ROLLING STOCK Â– PASSENGER AND FREIGHT EQUIPMENT

27043 Pullman heavyweight Pullman, September 1929 [car length?]
Former Pullman Traffic Club. Constructed in Pullman lot # 6274 to Plan #3989A, 8-section, buffet-lounge-sleeper car. Sold to the Pennsylvania Railroad in 12/1948 as #7008. Car withdrawn by Pullman lease and stored in September 1957. Assigned to M-O-W service by PRR, interior fixtures stripped and car painted yellow, number #492388 assigned in June 1959. Ownership transferred to Penn Central as #27043 on February 1, 1968, and to Conrail April 1, 1976. Purchased by RTI in March 1977 for $3150.00. Transferred from Hollidaysburg to Jim Thorpe 1977. Stored in Jim Thorpe, Pa.

So, therefore:

8. Traffic Club (Lot #6274, Plan #3989N, 1929, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, PRR)--sold to PRR #8627 (1948) to MofW #492388 (1959) to PC #27043 (1968) to CR #27043 (1976) to George Hart-Rail Tours Incorporated (1977) to RBMN (reported for sale)

Kurt lists the Traffic Club as PRR #7008, not #8627, which is the number listed for the Traffic Club by Spear. Spear lists the #7008 as the Lawyers Club (Lot #6289, Plan #3992H, 1929, buf-diner-lng [14]-plr [12]).

Questions:

Did the Traffic Club as MofW #27043 receive Conrail reporting marks, or did it still have PC reporting marks when sold to George Hart-RTI in 1977?

Was this car actually sold to RBMN?

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. D. Garrett Spear's PRR Pullman heavyweight parlors and sleepers roster pages: http://prr.railfan.net/passenger/GSPEAR/GSPEAR_PRR_HW_Pass_Title.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:54 pm

Back on page #7:

Rainier Rails wrote:

185. Lotos Club (Lot #4202, Plan #4025Q, 1913/36, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, B&O, ex-El Quivira)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Tilp Industries (1968) to RRMofPA

More info, from a thread from March 2004: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8856

K.R. Bell wrote:

In 1967, after running 4 million miles, the 96-ton car was retired and passed into the hands of a private owner. The Â“Lotus ClubÂ” had outlived most of the heavyweight Pullmans, and was the last of its exact type. During 1968-1969, it was restored to its 1936 appearance by Adams Industries of Union, New Jersey. Because Pullman was still in the railroad car business, the task of restoration was somewhat easier than normal. The company supplied information and assistance in restoring the car to its Plan #4025D appearance. In 1981, the Â“Lotus ClubÂ” was donated to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania by Peter Tilp.

Source:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:37 am

Missed this one:

344. Muphrid (Lot #3944, Plan #2521E, 1912, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--sold to B&O #7402 (1948) to private ownership (when??) to Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati (1995)--see here: http://www.cincirailmuseum.org/collection-html-14.html

Also located in Latonia:

50. Mountain Road (Lot #4690, Plan #2521D, 1923, 10S-buf-lng-obs)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Georgia & Florida (1955) to TVRM (when??) to private owner and moved to Latonia (when??) donated to RMGC (2005)

124. Lake Moreau (Lot #4725, Plan #3585, 1923, 10S-1DR-2C)--sold to SOU #2420 (1948) sold to TVRM (1965??) to private owner and moved to Latonia (when??) donated to RMGC (2005)

125. Lake Mansfield (Lot #4996, Plan #3585A, 1926, 10S-1DR-2C)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Royal American Shows (1958) sold to Tibley, San Antonio & Cypress-Orange Belt (when??) sold to RMGC (1979)

126. Overdale (Lot #6126, Plan #3958A, 1928, 14S)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Royal American Shows (1958) sold to Tibley, San Antonio & Cypress-Orange Belt (when??) sold to RMGC (1979)

127. Jovita (Lot #4249, Plan #2410A, 1914/42, 12S-1DR)--Tourist #2386--sold to Royal American Shows (1948) sold to Tibely, San Antonio & Cypress-Orange Belt (when??) sold to RMGC (1979)

139. Waltersburg (Lot #4762, Plan #3410A, 1924, 12S-1DR, PRR)--sold to PRR #8968 (1948) renamed J. Finley Wilson (1952) sold to LIRR and reconfigured to commuter club #2003 South Shore (1957) sold to private ownership (when??) to RMGC (1994)

Source:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:31 pm

Missed this one:

345. New York (2nd) (Lot #4210, Plan #2492, 1914, pvt. car)--sold to NC&StL #97 (1942) renumbered to #99 (when??) to L&N #352 (1957) sold to Kilby Family, stored in DeArmanville, AL, and lettered for Choccolocco & Heintooga (when??)--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/rspicture.aspx?id=323497

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:05 pm

An Addition:

346. Capitol Road (Lot #4923, Plan #3521A, 1925, 10S-lng-obs, ex-Monte Viso)--sold to C&NW and converted to business car #400 (1st) (1948) renumbered to #401 (2nd) (when??) named Wyoming (when??) sold to private ownership and renamed Carolyn (when??)

Currently listed for sale on Ozark Mountain Railcar: http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/detail.asp?id=1578&n=Private-Car-Carolyn--NEW

Does anybody know the #800xxx-series number for this car? Thanks in advance!

Pictures:

1. As C&NW #401 (2nd) at West Chicago: http://www.cnwhs.org/memberphotos/albums/userpics/10025/CNW%20Passenger%20Car%20%23401%20West%20Chicago%2C%20Ill..jpg (C&NW Historical Society photo)

2. As C&NW Wyoming, note that there is no number visible: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnw_wyoming0.jpg (North East Rails photo)

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Tim Andrews · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am **Posts:** 90

Jerry is right in his post from last week, it is hard to trace the heritage of Southern office cars. Many years ago I created a spreadsheet to try and follow the changes but it still has some cars that are incomplete and I have two Pullman cars that I not sure what happened to them. Sometime I will try to get all of my records in one place and try to figure out the rest of the story

[i]My comments are in italics and underlined

One thing you have to understand about Southern's business cars... they were fairly often renumbered because of who they were assigned to, as that individual advanced within the company or as people retired from various higher positions, and the National Park was no exception.

The following is from the Southern Railway business car assignments file from my Southern Modeler sight.

When the car National Park was rebuilt by the Southern and released from the Hayne company shop, Spartanburg, S.C., on 19 November 1946 the car was given the #9, with the car retaining its riveted sides. The car remained in this number until October 1970 when it was renumbered to #8. This car carried the #8 until it was retired. Car was renumbered back to car 9 7/14/71. This car never carried the name Tennessee. There was a car called “Tennessean” outshopped in 1951 became car 4 in 1953

During the same month the car that had been carrying the #8 was outshopped on 19 July Diagram 34-f-27 shows this as 7/14/48 from the Chattanooga company shop. This car had all welded steel sides Diagram Book clearly shows this as a riveted car. like some of the modernized coaches that were being rebuilt and it was this car that was renumbered to SOU #5, in October 1970, replacing the previous SOU #5 Renumbered 10 (8/10/72).

The previous SOU #5, which had been built from Pullman car Santiago and outshopped from Haynes as Alabama Great Southern #6 on 27 December 1946 (with riveted sides) and renumbered to #5 (still AGS) on 6 JULY 1951. It carried the #5 until it was removed from service and rebuilt with all welded sides became #12 on 22 October 1970 (see a pattern here?). There was no car 12 built in 1970. The car was renumbered and then cannabilized in 1972 and scrapped

It is this car that became Norfolk Southern #8 Tennessee.
According to the NS office car diagram book NS 8 is an office car. Originally Pullman “Point Richmond” then office car 21 (3/26/56) then renumbered 6 (10/26/70) and finally 5 (8/10/72). It became NS 8.
NS 11 was a Pullman car 1708 then Dinnette Coach 3101 (9/28/48) to Office car 11 (x Shell) at Hayne 3-22-63 renumbered 6 (8/3/72) then was converted to 8 Bedroom sleeper 16 at Hayne (10/80) and was named Tennessee

The previous car that carried SOU #12 had been released from the Haynes shop on 20 April 1950 with all welded sides and numbered SOU #15 (I have not yet found what this car was built from as all records I have access too does not say much about the car's origins.) and was renumbered to SOU #12 25 May 1953. This car became SOU #9 in October 1975 and SOU #8 7/14/71 .
In trying to ID photos it is often necessary to know the date the picture was taken as that will establish what car had what number on what date.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:20 pm

Thanks, Tim, for all the info!

So, therefore, the NS #8 is the:

174. CNO&TP 10S-2DR #3509 Point Richmond (Lot #4961, Plan #3584A, 1926) converted to business car #21 (1956) renumbered #6 (1970) renumbered #5 (1972) to NS #8 Tennessee sold to Donald Grant (2000) for sale and stored at Gateway

And the NS #11 is the:

111. 12S-1DR Osceola (Lot #4503, Plan #2410F, 1917) converted in 1941 to TC #1708 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted to dinette coach #3101 (1948) to business car #11 (1963) renumbered to #6 (1972) converted to executive sleeper #16 Tennessee (1980) to NS #11 Illinois (#800782)

In that case, I'm left wondering the history of:

SOU research #R-1 to NS track geometry car #31 to VMT (200?)

I previously had the SOU #R-1/NS #31 listed as converted from the Point Richmond, so now the question is: was the SOU #R-1/NS #31 originally a sleeper? Thanks in advance!

Back on page #19, you had inquired:

Tim Andrews wrote:

I did scan over the list of Southern HW sleepers on the modeler's website and think there are some that may not have been mentioned in this thread. Has anyone tried to make a list from this thread rather than having to go back and read each posting? It would make it easier to cross reference the info.

Here's a list of all the other SOU cars so far discussed in this thread:

275. 12S-1DR Benburb (Lot #4574, Plan #2410F, 1920) converted in 1942 to TC #2438 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted to baggage-express #582 to SERM

164. 12S-1DR Kermess (Lot #4525, Plan #2410F, 1917) converted in 1938 to TC #2227 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted in 1948 to baggage #598 to TVRM

163. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2402 Hazen (Lot #3942, Plan #2585E, 1911) converted in 1954 to coach #1037 to TVRM

219. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2404 Lake Ainslie (Lot #4728, Plan #3585, 1924) to Heart of Dixie

114. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2407 Lake Childs (Lot #4996, Plan #3585A, 1926) converted in 1967 to exhibition-baggage #24 to NS #27 (#800779)

124. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2420 Lake Moreau (Lot #4725, Plan #3585, 1923) to TVRM to RY Museum of Greater Cincinnati

39. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2422 Lake Pearl (Lot #4725, Plan #3585, 1923) to NS to VMT (1986)

278. SOU 10S-2DR #2429 Francois Xavier Martin (Lot #6284, Plan #3584B, 1929) converted in 1955 to coach #1040 renumbered to #1039 to MofW #960423 (1980) sold in 1996 to Chuck Jensen to MALX to East Tennessee Rail Car Services

84. SOU 10S-2DR #2433 Point Richards (Lot #4961, Plan #3584A, 1926) converted in 1952 to steam generator #BC2 renumbered to #960605 to NS #26 to New Georgia #1402 to Montana Daylight #1402 to Lou Steplock-Wyoming & Pacific (WPRX) #1402

226. SOU 10S-2DR #2436 Robert Toombs (Lot #6284, Plan #3584B, 1929) converted in 1955 to coach #1042 sold in 1983 to Conrail #25 to GSMR #25 Piedmont

61. SOU 10S-1DR-2DB #2449 Thomas Ruffin (Lot #6284, Plan #4074D, 1929) converted in 1939 from 10S-2DR (Plan #3584B) to SERM

223. SOU 10S-2DB-1C #2452 Tufts College (Lot #4531, Plan #4042B, 1918) converted in 1937 from 10S-4RM John Slidell (Plan #2412H) converted in 1932 from 16S Trollope (Plan #2412F) converted in 1961 to baggage-express #4531 to Mississippi Great Southern Chapter

209. SOU 10S-buffet lounge observation #2458 Windsor Castle (Lot #4484, Plan #4027G, 1917) converted in 1932 from 16S Penvir (Plan #2412F) converted in 1955 to coach #1041 to Conrail executive sleeper #8 to CSX #994008 Mississippi

225. SOU 10S-buffet lounge observation #2459 Windsor Locks (Lot #4531, Plan #4027G, 1918) converted in 1932 from 16S Radcliffe (Plan #2412F) converted in 1954 to coach #1038 to MofW #960420 to NS sold in 1996 to Chuck Jensen to MALX to East Tennessee Rail Car Services

161. SOU 12S-1DR #2463 Brentwood (Lot #6023, Plan #3410G, 1926) to Old Dominion Chapter

146. SOU 12S-1DR #2470 Glacier (Lot #4763, Plan #3410, 1924) to LASTA

172. SOU 12S-1DR #2475 Lexington (Lot #6055, Plan #3410A, 1927) renamed in 1948 from Portsmouth converted to business car Tennessee later to #4 sold to Conrail #4 to NS #5 Maryland (#800356)

41. SOU 12S-1DR #2480 McChesney (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925) to NCTM

112. SOU 12S-1DR #2484 McCreery (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925) converted in 1961 to recreation-executive sleeper #18 to NS #13 Georgia (#800784)

173. SOU 8S-buffet lounge #2509 La Fontaine Club (Lot #4531, Plan #4025T, 1918) converted in 1932 from 16S Cuyama (Plan #2412F) converted in 1954 to coach #1032 to track inspection #19 to NS #23 Buena Vista (#800776)

328. SOU 8S-buffet lounge #2510 Moon Brook Club (Lot #4531, Plan #4025T, 1918) converted in 1932 from 16S Elmbank (Plan #2412F) converted in 1955 to coach #1044 to executive sleeper #15 Alabama (2nd) (1979) to NS #9 Alabama (#800769)

167. SOU 8S-buffet lounge #2511 Spring Brook Club (Lot #4484, Plan #4025T, 1917) converted in 1932 from 16S Placer (Plan #2412F) converted in 1954 to coach #1036 to MofW #960419 to NS to TVRM (2013)

65. SOU 8S-1DR-3DB #2512 Canonbury Tower (Lot #4846, Plan #4090, 1925) converted in 1939 from 10S-2DR Point Brown (Plan #3584) to private owner in Colorado

276. SOU 6C-3DR #2519 Bizet (Lot #4833, Plan #3523A, 1924) to South Carolina RR Museum

171. SOU 6C-3DR #2520 Corot (Lot #4887, Plan #3523A, 1925) converted to business car #14 renumbered to #1 renumbered to #9 sold to Roman Arnoldy #1 Intrepid (#800034) sold to private ownership #1 (#800034) (2002??)

91. SOU 6C-3DR #2523 Glen Summit (Lot #4974, Plan #3523F, 1926) to VMT to MALX to Iowa Pacific as SLRG #9172 (201?)

147. SOU 6S-1DR-lounge #2524 Sea Island (Lot #4296, Plan #4010, 1914) converted in 1930 from 16S Charing Cross (Plan #2412C) as Seaboard, renamed in 1935 to Sea Island converted in 1955 to coach #1045 to MofW #960421 to LASTA #1045

227. SOU 6S-1DR-lounge #2525 Seaside (Lot #4216, Plan #4010, 1913) converted in 1930 from 16S Kokomo (Plan #2412B) converted in 1955 to coach #1043 sold in 1983 to Conrail #26 to GSMR #26 Southland

109. 12S-1DR Shannon (Lot #4591, Plan #2410F, 1920) converted in 1941 to TC #1816 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted to dinette coach #3102 to business car #10 renumbered to #3 sold to Conrail #1 to NS #4 Michigan (#800221)

113. 12S-1DR Ronneby (Lot #4590, Plan #2410F, 1920) converted in 1943 to TC #2632 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted to dinette coach #3103 to business car #20 renumbered to #7 to NS #20 Ohio (#800774)

165. CNO&TP 10S-2DR #3506 Point Airy (Lot #4932, Plan #3584A, 1926) converted in 1954 to coach #1033 to City of Andersonville to TVRM (2013)

40. CNO&TP 12S-1DR #3510 Maitland (Lot #4845, Plan #3410A, 1925) to TVRM

160. CNO&TP 12S-1DR #3512 McGirth (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925) to Old Dominion Chapter

162. 12S-1DR Bohemian (Lot #4076, Plan #2410I, 1912) converted in 1940 to 14S TC #3098 (Plan #4061A) sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to baggage #4064 to TVRM

221. 12S-1DR Parowan (Lot #4412, Plan #2410F, 1916) converted in 1941 to 14S TC #3139 (Plan #4061B), named Little Cave (1947-1950) sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to AGS baggage-express #4065 to KRM

220. 10S-1DR-2C Shrewsbury (Lot #4351, Plan #2585D, 1915) converted in 1951 to 13S TC #5139 sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to NO&NE baggage-express #4527 to Heart of Dixie

222. 12S-1DR Dorado (Lot #4540, Plan #2410F, 1918) converted in 1937 to 14S TC #3009 (Plan #4061) sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to NO&NE baggage-express #4529 to SERM

129. 10S-1DR-2C Medill (Lot #4443, Plan #2585E, 1916) converted in 1950 to 13S TC #5125 sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to baggage-express #4530 to TVRM

224. GS&F 10S-2DR #6204 Point Noire (Lot #4961, Plan #3584A, 1926) converted in 1952 to baggage-express #6457 to SERM

70. GS&F 10S-2DR #6206 William Aiken (Lot #4899, Plan #3584A, 1925) renamed in 1929 from Edward Cary Walthall converted in 1952 to baggage-express #6454 to NCTM

73. GS&F baggage-express #6462 to NCTM--full history unknown

166. 12S-1C-1DR Sophocles (Lot #4624, Plan #2411C, 1921) converted in 1951 to 14S TC #3154 sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to baggage-express #6464 to TVRM

280. Baggage-buffet parlor Van Cortlandt (Lot #6371, Plan #3987, 1930) sold in 1945 to SOU and converted to business car #2 sold to PC #1 sold to C&NW #402 Iowa--current status unknown

180. Baggage-buffet lounge Hampton Roads (Lot #6022, Plan #3951N, 1926) renamed in 1933 from Valley Forge sold in 1945 to SOU and converted to business car #3 renumbered to #1 renumbered to #14 to private ownership #60 Valley Forge (#800128) to Gulf & Ohio French Broad River to Grafton & Upton

110. Barber shop buffet lounge solarium observation Norman W. Kittson (Lot #6249, Plan #3990, 1929) sold in 1945 to SOU and converted in 1947 to business car #4 renumbered in 1953 to #15 (1st) leased to Auto Train (1972) sold to Arthur Boone #4 Boonesborough (#800026) located on Austin Steam Train-Austin & Texas Central

168. 12S-1DR Sueno (Lot #4591, Plan #2410F, 1920) converted in 1938 to TC #2220 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted in 1949 to safety instruction #SA-1 renumbered to #23 to TVRM

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

3. Mike Palmieri's SOU heavyweight sleeping car roster: http://southernmodeler.info/PrototypeInfo/Southern_HW.xls

4. Stan Garner's #800xxx-series car listings: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Tim Andrews · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am **Posts:** 90

Research Car NS 31 was
Pullman Car McCown
Office car shell "c"
R1 3-10-67 Hayne Shop
Computer records show the car as P00021but I don't think car was ever lettered 21, they assigned P numbers to several named cars so they could collect costs in the accounting system
NS 31

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:56 pm

Thanks, Tim, for the info!

So, therefore:

175. McCown (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925, 12S-1DR)--sold to SOU #2483 (1948) converted to research car #R1 (1967) to NS #31 to VMT (200?)

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

3. Mike Palmieri's SOU heavyweight sleeping car roster: http://southernmodeler.info/PrototypeInfo/Southern_HW.xls

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

jmlaboda · Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Quote:

Computer records show the car as P00021but I don't think car was ever lettered 21...

It did later on...

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/passenger/sou21a.html
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/passenger/sou21b.html

Thanks for all the added info... it is greatly appreciated!!!

Tim Andrews · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am **Posts:** 90

I took the list that Rainier Rails sent earlier and have spent the last couple of hours cross referencing it against my Dbase III (or was it IV) list and some old diagram books and have come up with another 18 cars from Southern that appear to be still out there. I've got a couple of others to double check and then I'm going to send to Rainer Rails to clean up before posting. I haven't had this much fun in a long time. lol.

Tim Andrews
Chattanooga

Brian Norden · **Posted:** Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:12 am

Rainier Rails wrote:

So, therefore:

12. Corydon (Lot #4529, Plan #2522B, 1917, 7C-2DR)--sold to 20th Century Fox (1944) to Short Line Enterprises (1972) to Railroader Restaurants (1973) to OERM (1984??)

For the record, the 2 OSL coaches were:

OSL #683:

Built in August 1911 by Pullman in Lot #3838 to Plan #2387 as 68 seat coach #98, renumbered in July 1915 to #683, retired in January 1949 and sold to 20th Century Fox, sold in 1972 to Short Line Enterprises, sold in 1973?? to Sierra RR #11, to Railtown 1897 in 1982.

OSL #692:

Built in September 1911 by Pullman in Lot #3838 to Plan #2387 as 68 seat coach #107, renumbered in 1915 to #692, retired in January 1949 and sold to 20th Century Fox, sold in 1972 to Short Line Enterprises, sold in 1973 to Railroader Restaurants, sold in 1984?? to OERM.

I know of at least one other OSL coach from Lot #3838 which is extant:

OSL #682, built as #97 (September 1911), which is now owned by Iowa Pacific as Mount Hood (MH) #1080 Timberline--see here: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36455

In addition, OSL #110/#695 is listed as going to a café in Pomona--is this car still there?

The two Pullmans and UP 692 were all sold at the same time. I wrote the description/fund appeal for the two cars to OERM; but, I'm going to have dig into the archives to find the year, etc.

Regarding the car in Pomona, I have no recollection of this car. If we can turn up when it was sold, that would help. But, back in the 1970s/80s there was a small chain of restaurants in the area that utilized ex-UP lightweight and modernized heavyweight passenger cars. One set of these was relocated from Hemet to Romoland to become a Chinese restaurant. The other two are gone; one was in Riverside. Someplace here I have information one the cars used.

Some notes about the cars at OERM:
CORYDON has only two interior paint jobs the original simulated wood grain on the steel surfaces that was later painted over by a plain brown color (I wonder who did the brown as the interior of the large poster frame opposite one of the end doors still shows the wood-graining.).

UP 692 has seat frames but no cushions as Short Liner Prices had removed them and stored them in a storage space the leaked then discarded them.
Most of the art glass of the upper window sash is missing from the time of its storage in a trucking yard.
Built with Pintch gas lighting system and later UP added an axillary electric system installed. It still has the gas lighting system on the car.