And ignores the even larger picture, which is just what our already generous friends at NS want to build into their program. I'm overwhelmed to see 611 getting back into service along with 4501, and I'm not at all interested in being the ungrateful foaming brat who wants to continually demand even more - what's in the works now is great and plentiful, and should the powers that be decide the wish to pursue further candidates, I'd be equally thankful for it. Should they decide that what's in the works now is all they need, it's still very impressive.

Dreaming less about other peoples stuff and creating more progress in our own projects is a better use of our efforts and bandwidth in general. I'm pretty sure Richard has his hands full right now anyway continuing his successful work in Maine.

dave

Hey David isn't it also those same armchair railfans and preservationists that give money which the museum's use to judge their collection. I can think of cars getting scrapped at IRM which you are affiliated with due to not receiving money. So yes in the end those armchair railfans and preservationists do in fact dictate what gets saved and what does not.

That was my point with Richard, he should know more than some on here, that a mere dream doesn't get the 470 any closer to showing pressure on her gauge. They haven't gotten this far by mere dreaming.

Not necessarily, if your fundraising plan depends solely on railfans donating to projects, you are doomed to failure.

Which scrapped cars do you speak of?

I tend to think IRM as a whole does a decent job of collections management and prioritizing.

I think also what's getting lost in the noise here regarding MOT is this:

1522 was not restored by the Museum of Transportation. A private, non-profit group was formed, the St. Louis Steam Train Association ("SLSTA") which did the restoration and subsequent operation of 1522 until they decided to call it quits. They leased the locomotive from the museum.

In the end, I think if a competently managed group with a plan (think MEC 470), approached MOT with a plan to restore and operate a locomotive, whether it be the 1522, the 4960, the C&NW 4-4-2, the 0-4-0T, Silver Charger, or whatever, it would be up to said organization and MOT to decide if their goals were mutually beneficial, and if a deal could be done.

In the end, that's what has happened to the 2156. VMT and NS were able to make a good deal with MOT for a long-term custodial loan. It is a model of cooperation that should be applauded.

MOT is still really associated with the "dark days" of the 1970s and early 1980s when the place was a mess. Even in my nine years in St. Louis, I saw marked progress in the museum and its collection management. Since none of us are MOT or said, non existent organization, it doesn't really matter what we think MOT should do with a particular artifact.

*IF* they (they being NS and the museums they are aligned with, or some other competent group set up for such purpose) wanted a big articulated to run and had a workable funding plan I'm sure 1218 would be given the nod.

But if for some reason 2156 were selected, it's hard to believe MoT would stand in the way, with various stipulations such as guaranteed return, excursions in the area, etc. Perhaps staying at the museum so many months of the year. If the museum's mission is to inform and educate, a running engine does that ten thousand times better than a static display. So many people tending to her have no doubt imagined what she'd be like running I can't imagine an outright refusal. Not for a few amateurs who put together a group and risk a locomotive ending up in pieces in a failed effort but a competent group or museum and the imprimatur (or funding) of NS?

But this is totally far fetched. 1218 is the better match to the service contemplated. If she were running then yeah, there would definitely be talk of completing the triumvirate.

Agreed..........it is their engine. They can scrap it or use it for an anchor on a Mississippi River tugboat if they wish. The man said that if NS wanted to foot the bill for restoring the locomotive to operation that the Museum of Transportation in St.Louis would likely decline the offer. Seems crazy to me but whatever blows your dress up. I don't care for folks telling me what to do with the equipment that I own so I'll stop hypothesizing about the equipment of others.

I would like to point out that the poster who made the "policy pronouncement" for MOT is self-identified as a tour guide. I doubt he is speaking for MOT in any official capacity, and also seriously doubt he'd be involved in any heavy decision making should an proposal by NS ever be made with regard to returning 2156 to operation.

I think MOT has enough on its plate without worrying about justifying the restoration of a huge articulated freight hog that isn't practical for use within the control of MOT. On the off chance they ever decide they want operating steam (and I'm certainly not suggesting that's what they need right now - I would not presume to know better than Molly and Ron) it would make sense they would look for something that would be useful to them on their site....in other words, for switching, posing and demonstration. The generic 0-6-0 with the swallowtail tender would be cool for that....or something similar. just saying....if you insist on dreaming, at least make them practical dreams.

dave

There's an 0-4-0T on the property that came from Union Electric that would be the perfect size. 1920s Baldwin construction, coal fired. At one time, I believe, the 1522 guys did a UT test of the boiler and found all to be well. It'd be the perfect size, and could run on the streetcar line.

The little Union Electric 0-4-0T would be great for displaying a live steam locomotive and is small enough to go anywhere at the MOT.
I tried to convince a group of eager beavers to put together a plan to refurbish the engine and they would learn a lot, plus give them some street cred to think about a larger restoration.
The engine is a soaker so would require some careful running to keep from sooting up the visitors, but it would attract a lot of folks to the Museum.

I'll just keep watch how 2156 goes, frame repair is possible, its not a negative. N&W ran some excursions with Y6b's before the final end of steam, so you wanna ride 25 mph, why not. You could give it a test run over its old plodding grounds on the Blue Ridge hauling what it did best, coal. But we've seen 1218 already, something not done for a while would be more interesting like UP 4014. Anyway you look at it it would be several years before you would see it run for its restored run, 611 for now is your better view for now but keep the 2156 noise going, maybe something could go down...

I think you should have some more pizza and enjoy it! What you got slapped down for was daring to express a wish, a thought of something that would make you and many others happy.

I understand the line of thinking that condemns dreaming and rewards planning, but the two are not at odds with each other. They are two sides of the same coin.

Ogilvy & Mather, the company I work for, stresses the notion of the "Twin Peaks" of creativity and effectiveness. To have the dream without the result (and vice-versa) is for naught. Success requires a balance of both. I dare to suggest that many of you on this board are currently working on projects you once dreamed about. I am.

I offer for consideration the 8 Ogilvy habits written by O&M founder David Ogvily. If ever there was a man who understood how to link the dream to action, it was DO. He may have written this for the ad industry, but it echoes across all aspects of thinking big and achieving accomplishments based upon those thoughts.

He saw these as traits of great people, not just great employees. Enjoy!

Rob

COURAGE
Fear is a demon that devours the soul of an agency: it diminishes the quality of our imagination, it dulls our appetite for adventure, it sucks away our youth.

IDEALISM
How great we become depends on the size of our dreams. Let’s dream humongous dreams, put on our overalls, go out there and build them.

CURIOSITY
An endless trail of ideas floats in the ether. You will only see them if you are curious. For a start, we have to ask stupid questions like a pesky 6-year-old.

PLAYFULNESS
The man loved a good joke, especially one with some ‘wind’ in it. All our art, all our science and all our philosophy have been invented by playful people, not serious people.

CANDOUR
We are a company of problem-solvers. Our job requires us to be brutally honest and totally dedicated to the truth.

INTUITION
All our finest thoughts and best ideas are not the work of the logical mind, but gifts from the unconscious.

FREE-SPIRITEDNESS
Rule 1. There are no rules.
Rule 2. Never forget rule one.

PERSISTENCE
Never give in. Never give in. Never give in. Never. Never. Never. Never.
If the client kills your ad, do him a better one.
If he kills that better one, do him an even better one.
If he kills that even better one, do him your damn best one.

Hi,

I did not realize a Y6a had been saved from the scrapper.

I recall the HO scale Y6b I put on layaway at Woolworths in the 1960s to get one. Many mowed lawns (I think it was 50 cents per yard and the layaway was something like $19.95) were done to purchase it - it was damaged in a later move.

Thanks for the trigger to a pleasant memory.

Doug vV

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