Quite a few small 4-wheel single truck trolley car bodies have been preserved over the years, perhaps with little to no hope of ever restoring them to operation due to lack of equipment and parts. With that in mind, and with the recent Classified post regarding a fleet of complete Belgian single truckers for sale (which appear to be on Brill 21-E look-alike trucks), I thought I would compile a few lists from PNAERC to promote some discussion on the viability of restoring a few more historic cars. $7,000 for a complete car might be a better option than fabricating and gathering over many years.

From what I see, these cars could use Brill 21-E or the similar Brill Radial Truck:
*Batavia Traction 33, Kuhlman, 1911, NY Museum of Transportation
*Brattleboro St. RR. 8, Wason, 1917, Seashore Trolley Museum
*Bristol Traction 34, Brill, 1907, Connecticut Trolley Museum
*Carolina Power and Light 42, Brill 1916, Craggy Mountain Line, NC
*Five Mile Beach Electric 20, Brill, 1913, Wildwood Trolley group NJ
*Hagerstown and Frederick 62, Brill, 1917, Frederick Trolley Committee, MD
*Marquette City and Presque Isle St Ry 20, American, 1903, Marquette, MI
*Pacific Gas and Electric 41, American, 1918 (Birney), Western Railway Museum/Rio Vista Jct.
*Sheridan Railway and Light 115, American, 1911, Sheridan WY

While the Birney Truck and other innovations that came around 1917 changed truck design, perhaps the owners of the cars below would settle for a Belgian truck, even if it would not "belong" on their car, in order to have operations with an approximately correct solution.
-Alabama Power, Southern Car, 1915, Gadsen, AL
-Bristol Traction 28, Wason, 1907, Connecticut Trolley Museum
-Ft Smith Traction 10, American, 1902, Ft Smith Trolley Museum
-Helena Light and Traction 3, Cincinnati, 1909, Helena, MT
-Iron River, Stambaugh & Crystal Falls St Ry 5532, 1890s Pullman, Caspian, MI
-Jersey Shore St Ry 4, American, 1894, Glenmoor, PA
-Lethbridge Municipal Ry 8, Preston, 1912, Lethbridge, AB
-Lynn & Boston St Ry 3256, Brill, 1888, Seashore Trolley Museum
-Manchester St. Ry. 94, Wason, 1905, Connecticut Trolley Museum
-Milwaukee Street Railway 200, Milwaukee St Ry, 1892, East Troy Electric RR
-New Brunswick Power 82, Ottawa, 1912, Canadian Railway Museum
-North Kankakee Electric Light and Railway 114, McGuire-Cummings 1917, Kankakee Railroad Museum
-North Kankakee Electric Light and Railway 116, McGuire-Cummings 1917, IRM
-Saskatoon Municipal Ry 35, 1895, Edmonton Radial Society
-Saskatoon Municipal Ry 40, Preston, 1911, SasKatchewan Railway Museum
-Staten Island Midland 157, St. Louis, 1897, Branford Electric Railway Assn
-Wisconsin Railway Light and Power 10, St Louis, 1914, Minnesota Streetcar Museum

The link for the ad:
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37322

The link for PNAERC (with an applicable sort):
http://www.bera.org/cgi-bin/pnaerc-query.pl?match_field=wheels&match_target=4&sort_by=trucks&sort_by2=status&Tech=Yes&pagelen=400

I think that the Wildwood car is double truck, the single truck cars were numbered in the
30s at the end of service. A predecessor to the Electric City Trolley Museum Association
had a pair of PCC body bolsters made for their car 24, before buying the proper
bolsterless trucks from a narrow gauge line in Japan.
Bill Wall, in one of his trades, got a single truck without motors for the Staten Island car.

The Belgian 21-E design is a roller bearing truck. The flanges are thin and deep. The truck travels well on our railway.

Having had a few years operating experience at our museum with a sister to the Belgian cars on offer, I would be disappointed to see STIB 1048 scrapped for its truck. The car is a great interpretive object as is, even if it is not from an American city. Our visitors enjoy the contrast to riding a PCC or standard car. In the meantime we are not consuming a car with more significance to the collection. There is a companion trailer available, so the possibility to interpret single truck train service is available in a turn-key set. You will need a loop. The Belgian cars on offer are single-ended. STIB 1048 has straight air brakes, dynamic brakes, and is equipped with a line switch (similar to a K-controller design with roller bearing in the handle).

Wesley

Let's not forget the two Richmond chicken coops in Belmont, NC. There's also another Asheville (CP&L) body in Charlotte.

While a great source of similar trucks from scrapped cars would be most welcome, these cars need a good home in which they can be put to use. I would like to see some cooperative effort made to develop a Birney truck replication program that would get more of our coops up on wheels, perhaps making use of off the shelf motors and drive trains to replace the unavailable old school axle hung traction motors no longer available. Birney truck frames have been built new in the past couple decades using wheelsets and motors from old double trucks, but those are getting hard to find as well. Brookville doesn't seem interested in manufacturing an outside framed and equalized truck, sticking with naked-wheeled PCC stuff.......

dave

Whatever the arrangement of that Wildwood car, it looks like it could use a new friend as well. What is it with New Jersey and rail preservation? This news is circa mid-2011 vintage:


http://www.shorenewstoday.com/snt/news/index.php/wildwood-mainmenu/in-another-time/13249-in-another-time-g-tram-car-is-one-of-several-innovations-for-moving-visitors-.html

The dog kennel that was formerly a summer cottage along the West side of U.S. Rte. 9 where it's next to the Garden State Pkwy. in Birley, N.J. was about the same size as double truck 24 now in Buckingham Valley, Pa., the pigeon coop that was formerly a summer cottage on that same sawdust filled lake.

The Wildwood open car body discussed here was thought to be originally from Washington, DC. Roy King traced the car to Third Avenue if I recall. I have seen a photo somewhere, maybe from Joel Salomon?

Wesley

Our Winona No. 10 can be scratched off the list of truckless single truckers. She now sits on a Dupont No. 35 truck that has been beefed-up to support a heavier car. No. 10 originally had a Dupont No. 46 truck which was a relatively rare truck St. Louis Car Company used under some of their single truckers. Of course there are only 3-4 of the No. 46 trucks extant and all are under existing cars in various museums. The No. 35 truck was an earlier version that was designed for horsecar conversions.

BTW, our No. 10 is not a Birney car or a lightweight car but a composite steel/wood bodied car that weights-in at around 11 tons fully loaded.

Attached is a photo of our No. 10 taken in the early 1930s and colorized by our member Rod Eaton. This is the livery the car will have when it's completed sometime in late 2015 or 2016. At this time, the Winona system was operated by Mississippi Valley Public Service Company, which also operated the LaCrosse, Wisconsin Streetcars and provided electric power to the area.

Thanks!

Last I knew Western Railway Museum had most of a truck for the PG&E Birney car. It had been used on a marine railway to remove boats from the water. Obviously motors and brakes had been removed but the bull gears were still on the axles.

The big shortage for Birney restorations is K-63 or similar safety car controllers.

The reproduction Brill 79E program is not completed. Our next step was spring cups and body end spring caps, but until I get a handle on my work schedule or someone else steps up to help expedite the castings, it's on hold.

http://www.rplsfaq.com/birney.html

If you mean that you have sources for the rest of the parts, I'd certainly be interested to find out about them. I've got 3 chicken coops right now......

I think the future for controllers is modern guts in replica boxes. I think Gomaco was doing something like this......and I have a trolley owning friend who is a electronic engineer with an interest in coming up with a solution. He seems to think it is not going to be difficult, but I'm too ignorant of solid state anything to judge.

dave

Dave, I'm guessing you didn't make the ATRRM tour of MATA in Dallas? Their newly restored No. 754 has a braking controller with a star wheel and a low voltage switch under the cover plate and nothing else. Of course, they're running Ac motors with an IGBT based controls, but the implementation looks much like the other traditional controllers. There's plenty of room in the controller for your lunch box or perhaps a winter coat. Maybe I can get Zac to post a picture of the innards.

What scares me about the car is that the self-lapping wabco brake valve is installed at the controller's stand but is not connected. Braking is through the controller with dynamics and the final application of pneumatic brakes is completed by the computer. I know my fear is misguided because computers generally do a better job at these kinds of things and hardly anything ever goes wrong... goes wrong... goes wrong...

I haven't been able to travel for several years now, Andy, and I miss a hell of a lot I'd rather be a part of.

I'm talking about a solid state unit that runs on DC, although the use of a chopper or VFD on AC is commonplace in industrial settings. Like you, I don't see why an air brake controlled by the motorman isn't workable - you already are accustomed to shutting down the controller before making an application. Even with regenerative braking you go back past OFF........and I don't trust computers to make complex value judgements for me, like making a smooth stop at the right location.

Although, going to AC does open up the possibilities beyond things like traction elevator motors for powering the wheels. There's plenty of DC traction elevator motors being replaced with modern efficient AC units these days, though, so we could be losing a ready and inexpensive source.

Please have Zak send anything he's got and I'll put him and Nate together.

Has anybody worked out a recycling of PCC motor / gearbox units with extended axles in journal boxes in an outside framed truck? You could easily add roller bearings and disc brakes with a setup like that, and still look correct while easing maintenance and ride quality.

dave

While I find it interesting as an idea to restore a body to operation with modern components, I also find it akin to a home remuddling that will be fine but never quite the old home of the old days. Whether or not this was the path you chose, depends on your goals, style and taste. It would seem most appropriate for a heritage trolley running every day with limited opportunity for maintenance, and potentially avoiding the problems involved with poor maintenance of older technology by unqualified individuals. It would seem less appropriate for limited use at a museum trying to accurately represent the way things were, as best possible with most realistic outcomes.

We had similar discussions in the past talking about using Trex for siding on wood passenger cars. Even using PCC technology with transverse motors gives a different feel to operations, than a car with parallel-hung motors (for these older cars). I am not against re-engineering, but am not sure why some people are so eager to take a different path in restoration.

So here, aside from the two very operable Belgian cars, we have six single truck former maintenance cars, complete but needing work. Prices vary from 12,000 to 4,000 dollars asking price. If I were a museum, doing preservation of a single trucker body, I would give them consideration. If I were an urban heritage trolley operation, I would also give all 8 cars due consideration for restoration as is. Rebuilding the bonnet on the platforms, and the dash on the end, would make the cars look very traditional as a single truck American car.

OK, then tell me where I can find affordable old school hardware for my chicken coops so I can more accurately get them in to service. I've looked.....and found very few and costly sources for not enough (still somewhat wrong) stuff more like the originals. I don't want to unnecessarily alter something, but what are the practical alternatives? Believe me, if I knew of any that would be my first choice, but I'm unaware it is even the table for consideration except in an abstract academic way that is not of any practical value.

Generic cars, fine. The Brussels trams are excellent, if the low capacity works for you. They are far too good to cut up for parts unless there are no other options, and the seller is not interested in parting them out in any case.

dave