"All's you gotta do is ,,,"

A more realistic Harrisburg-based trip would be Harrisburg to Williamsport, where both a wye on NS and a loop routing via the Lycoming Valley short line are possible. A good part of the route does not see multiple daily trains, the route is quite scenic, and the track is in excellent shape.

For those who forgot or are unaware, NRHS also made changes after the 1988 convention....

Specifically it established a convention oversight committee chaired by people like Carl Jensen (whose name should be well known to anyone who rode behind the 611 or 1218)....

The 2015 NRHS convention will be held in Rutland, VT next June and will be chaired by Walter Zullig who served as General Counsel for Metro North.

The 765 and 1225 both ran at the 1991 NRHS convention which included a side by side runby.

Bob H

IF there is any NS steam excursion next year in PA, it would not be part of a convention, it would simply be the only event at that time. FWRHS themselves have said that they wanted to hit the northeast US in 2015 but nothing is set in stone yet. We won't find out until after the New Year where 765 is going on NS. They did have a success with the Horseshoe Curve trips last year. And Amtrak just ran Philly to Harrisburg on the NS old Reading Co. main last month for special autumn excursions. Maybe we'll see the 765 hit those lines someday.

[quote="Steamtown Observer

I forgot all about the circle trip! Do you remember the infamous Pennsylvania Dutch Lunch? 500 people and 16 seats!

I think the lawsuits are still going on...[/quote]

What lawsuits??

Can you substantiate that statement with any specific facts, dates, names, amounts etc -- after all this forum is supposed to be based on facts which your statement is lacking.

Bob H

So who said "that" and when and did that person consider the conventions that were held in later years in places like St. Louis, San Jose, Chicago, Salt Lake City etc etc.

While the era of "can you top" this may be gone, it didn't end then.

I would like to think the people who post messages on this forum could get their facts right.

Bob H

Never mind the issue that you have decided to dredge up a TEN-YEARS-AGO post to attack the integrity of an individual on this forum.

The reality is that the description of "truly major" is completely subjective, and not subject to extrapolation by "facts" as you seem to demand.

About the only measures I can think of for proper comparison would be to compare 1) attendance of the conventions, either in raw numbers or as a percentage of membership, and 2) profit or loss afterwards. I don't have the capacity to pull those figures up; if you do, I'd be much obliged for the "facts".

As I type this, I have newsletter accounts on my desk here of repeated FOUR-DAY outings by an NRHS chapter in ages past, sold mostly to the general public, including highlights like sunrise and an entire day at the Grand Canyon, on a routing later described aptly as "once in a lifetime". Granted, the steam was gone by then, but.....

What lawsuits??

Can you substantiate that statement with any specific facts, dates, names, amounts etc -- after all this forum is supposed to be based on facts which your statement is lacking.

Bob H[/quote]

Thanks for waiting 10 YEARS to question my post!

Tri-State Chapter recently had their 50th anniversary and put out a nice little book reviewing their history. Admirably, they cover the events that led to the 1988 Convention and the aftermath. In there they say the last legal actions and repayments were completed in 1998, so my statement in 2004 wasn't too far off.

It should also be noted that they have recovered nicely and currently do a fine job promoting and preserving rail history from the "Lackawanna" F3 to their monthly programs ina general public friendly venue.

Remember this? 765 on one of the convention excursions going through my area of Allentown, PA! http://appalachianrailroadmodeling.com/ ... allentown/ A poster on Trainorders claims he heard from 765's engineer (Rich Melvin?) during the Ohio trips this year that 765 might go to Allentown, PA next year and Buffalo, NY. Those are two cities that have not seen live steam since 1988. Somewhere else, a guy said next year will see steam in places that haven't seen steam since 1988. Put two and two together. Perhaps next year the eastern PA railfans will get their wish. It's on this post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37291 second post down. And Kelly Lynch said you aren't far off, Doc meaning he's almost right in saying there will be trips next year on NS lines that haven't seen steam since 1988. I forgot to check the dates when posting, I was unaware the thread was ten years old. Maybe there should be an NS steam excursion route wish list for people to post their wish list for future NS steam excursions. Not saying that anything on the wish list will come true, but just as a fun thing to see what NS routes people would like to see steam run on next. To the poster about a Williamsport trip, there is a wye ten miles past Renovo, PA the PRR E8's had a public excursion on that line several years ago. 765 and train could turn at the wye ten miles past Renovo and Rockville/Enola. That is NS's Buffalo line I believe, a former PRR line. Rich Melvin or whoever keeps deleting my posts at ogr whenever I mention 765 going to Allentown next year like he's sick of me asking 100 times. Nobody will talk, and a poster said that FWRHS will not announce anything until after the first of the new year. So, the only thing to do is wait until NS and FWRHS announce the trips early next year to find out what routes 765 is running on next year. I actually met Kelly on the train last year in PA in the gift shop car. Rich might have been in 765's cab, I rode the May 25th trip from Lewistown. The first day of public excursions with 765 in PA. The only negative with the new NS excursions is lack of open windows but at least your belongings won't fly out the window. If it means no chopped off heads and arms so be it. NS is safety first. It can be dangerous to stick your body parts out of the train when it's moving. I would vote for a future excursion to start in Bethlehem, PA that way we wouldn't have to travel as far to get to the boarding point. How about Bethlehem to Harrisburg?

And the full moon apparently resurrected this old thread, as well.

We'll be happy to reopen this discussion as soon as "votes" are offered by Norfolk Southern. Until then, the litany of folks wanting excursions starting at their front doors and operating to their favorite choices of destinations will no doubt continue unabated, as annoying as a thousand chattering magpies.

Myself? I'll thank NS and my lucky stars for ANYTHING in the way of mainline steam we might be offered east of the Mississippi.

Now if we could just do the things we were doing when this thread was started ....

Looking at my calendar in about two weeks starting June 25 2004, I flew to MLI for some 261 trips, came home, flew to MSP for the NRHS convention, flew home for a couple of nights and then flew back to MSP for a four day trip with the "Empress" to the Canadian border and flew home from MOT.

and yes it was cost effective to make all these flights and come home between trips, plus it saved some vacation time.

Bob H

Not to spoil the fun of guessing what next years NS steam offerings might be....but.....the huge issue involved will be how the railroad is coping with its current main task and that's trying to handle the major surge in traffic.

In my area ( Reading,Pa.) its a constant struggle to find enough crews, enough track etc. to keep the railroad fluid. There are lots of days where 3-6 trains are tied up waiting for crew availability to finish their journey into Philadelphia.

Unless the current glut of business either slows down or the railroad has hired enough additional manpower to handle it, my best guess is that any extra trains activity will be extremely limited if permitted at all ??

IMHO-Ross Rowland

The thing is, Amtrak just operated two special excursions from Philly to Harrisburg via Reading last month and NS had no problem with that. As busy as the NS Harrisburg line is, NS was able to accommodate the Amtrak special. So there probably wouldn't be a problem in accommodating a 765 excursion on those lines for a weekend. 765 ran on the busy Pittsburgh line last year for three days plus ferry moves. They plan. To resume steam trips next spring so apparently the crew shortage and capacity issues will be sorted out by then. On FWRHS site they say 2015 excursions will be announced early next year.

Gain a few years' experience, and you'll learn that there is a VAST difference between running and servicing regular Amtrak diesels, which is little different to railroad crews than a tourist renting a car at the airport, and running a steam locomotive with a specialized train with its own steam crews "escorted" by local crews familiar with the division.

Remember one other factor: no one had an opportunity to get off the train at all during the Amtrak specials. No reboarding, no ticket checking, no making sure passengers don't wander all over the tracks to get photos of the front end, no photo stops, no photo run-bys, no crew of volunteers going out weeks in advance to secure permission for people walking over private property for a photo line, no clearing brush a week in advance to assure everyone gets a shot (as many NRHS Chapter Trip Committees were famous for doing for some Southern/NS runs), no Burro Crane operator to re-coal the tender, no co-ordinating with the fire departments to make sure that water can fill the tender ("And no Line Slick, either!")....... virtually the only NS employees that had to be involved with the Amtrak specials were the engineers or pilot (two?), the dispatchers, and NS police that wanted to write trespassing tickets for railfans. Now, IF it were possible to do the same with a "turnkey" steam excursion train from 261 or 765 or the like, and passengers would put up with riding all day while barely seeing the steamer, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

"Nonstop" excursions also do away with one railfan tactic exploited many times over the years, the practice of "splitting" tickets so two or four (or more) railfans can enjoy a ride in one direction and chase for photos the other, trading seats/tickets and auto at the turnaround point. This is especially useful if you've travelled hundreds or thousands of miles to a place you may not get to again.

(The thought occurs that if someone didn't reboard those Amtrak specials in time in Harrisburg, at least they could buy an Amtrak ticket back to their origin. I remember hearing firsthand of someone who missed reboarding a steam special I was on in the UK, so he jumped a regular British Rail service train over a slightly faster route and got ahead to reboard at a later station stop!)