As a traction fan, I hear quite a few references to National City Lines, and sometimes GM in particular. This is especially true if I'm working in the LA Railway streetcar barn at Orange Empire (where some of the cars still have the NCL "fruit salad" color scheme). There's a recently published book (from Canada) that supposedly lays out the whole sad story of the demise of most US streetcar systems at the hands of this "great transit conspiracy"; then there are other authors who don't like GM, Firestone, et al. either, but think blaming them for the current state of public transit in the US is an over-simplification.
Be that as it may, we really can't blame NCL for the lack of medium and long-distance passenger trains. Among other factors that can be considered: Development of jet-powered transport planes, which got a major boost from military aviation, especially the B-47 bomber. The Interstate Highway program, sold to Congress and the public as a way to move military traffic in wartime, and said to have been inspired by President Eisenhower's observations of the German Autobahn network. Diversion of US Mail business to air and highway carriers.

An earlier development (maybe):



And a possible sequel?

http://narprail.org/news/narp-blog/2371 ... ntostation

Of particular interest are the vintage interfaces with modern technology, such as the old typewriter that connects with Twitter, and the classic radio that incorporates an I-pod. Wonder how big a job it was to rig that up?

Story on Amtrak's finances and an interesting comment in there:

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/201 ... l/?hp&_r=0



Can we harness this renewed interest in railroading into the preservation field?

More on Amtrak's financial performance--surprisingly, it does about as well as SBB (Swiss rail system):

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/pas ... ratio.html

On the value of perseverance:

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/blo ... l?channel=

I'll add that we may finally--FINALLY--be getting to where we might get some respect:

Rather than start a new thread, I'm just placing this here (and even then I'm not sure this is the right place):

http://www.floridanotallaboard.com/

https://www.facebook.com/floridanotallaboard

For the record, this is in reference to "All Aboard Florida," a proposal by the Florida East Coast Railway to reenter the passenger market. Partially driven by Florida traffic congestion, higher gasoline prices, the observed changing shift away from cars, plus hopes of more property development, the FEC is working at returning to privately operated passenger service.

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/

However, as noted, not everyone is happy with the idea.

To tell you the truth, the first time I saw this, I asked the fellow in Florida who forwarded it to me, "Are these guys real? I say, this looks more like a spoof of NIMBYism than a real effort." His reply was that these guys are real, and really are afraid of trains, apparently.

I bring this up because one of the things that stood out about this bunch, particularly on the Facebook page, was how much they sounded like the trail people in New York. All the elements are there--the trains will need a subsidy, questions about rich people making money off the trains at public expense, the notion that railroads are outmoded, concerns about safety and noise and pollution (as if the highway system doesn't have those things in far greater measure and doesn't need a subsidy, either)--even awful graphics and the talk about "stopping the choo choo."

I declare, these guys would be at home in the pages of "The Onion."

It's also another example of how rail promoters, including heritage people, are "red headed stepchildren" who can't "get no. . ."--no, I won't say it here, I've said it often enough, and to say it again might upset certain people.

For those who follow, or are interested in, court decisions regarding Amtrak:

Department of Transportation, et al., Petitioners v. Association of American Railroads

Docket No. 13-1080

This case regards Section 207 of the Passenger Rail Investment & Improvement Act (PRIIA) of 2008, which relates to Amtrak's on-time performance, and as the SCOTUS blog states:



The case was last heard by the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, and the Supreme Court agreed to hear the case on June 23rd. As of September 4th, argument before the Supreme Court has been scheduled for Monday, December 8th.

Supreme Court Webpages on the Case:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/13-1080.htm

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/department-of-transportation-v-association-of-american-railroads/

Related news articles from June when the Court granted the Petition:

Railway Age: http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/supreme-court-to-consider-usdot-vs-aar-re-amtrak.html

Associated Press: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/supreme-court-hear-amtrak-dispute

Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/articles/supreme-court-to-review-amtrak-role-in-setting-rail-regulations-1403531638

Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-23/amtrak-rulemaking-clash-draws-scrutiny-from-supreme-court.html

Just a general article on the increasing interest in modern passenger service--but take note that heritage service is considered in the mix, too, at least by some people.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/travel/ir ... ?hpt=hp_c4

Can we tap into this?

Part of the reason for the gap between Chicago and Florida is that the lines from Nashville to Atlanta are still primarily single track. The biggest obstacle is on the old Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis where it crosses Cumberland Mountain. Steep grades, narrow cuts and a single track tunnel that's long and deep means that double tracking is not an option on that portion of the line. There is no economic way for Amtrak to compete with the airlines for the passenger traffic on those city pairs.

Mr. Walker raises a good point. I believe The Floridian in Amtrak times took the "long way" to Florida through Birmingham. The IC-CofG route was equally non-direct.

Even getting to Louisville is more challenging with the south end of the old Monon now long gone. The Louisville & Indiana's ex PRR line to Louisville is restricted to slower speeds. You could race down the C&EI to Evansville, then use the former L&N to Nashville, but you miss an important city-Louisville along the route.

For anyone who is following the case Department of Transportation, et al., Petitioners v. Association of American Railroads, here's the full transcript from the arguments heard by the Supreme Court this past Monday, December 8th:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/13-1080_4f15.pdf

Also some new entries on the SCOTUS blog regarding this case:

By Stephen Wermiel, posted Thursday, December 4th: http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/12/scotus-for-law-students-non-delegation-doctrine-returns-after-long-hiatus/

By Lyle Denniston, posted Saturday, December 6th: http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/12/argument-preview-a-doctrinal-trip-back-to-the-1930s/

By Lyle Denniston, posted Monday, December 8th: http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/12/argument-analysis-decide-or-remand-thats-the-question/

_________________
Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

And if you don't want to read it, you can go to the Oyez Project's page and listen to the audio file.

The Iraq war cost far more than paying for Amtrak, you could fund Amtrak a long time just from the Iraq war and include NASA in the whole deal. Somebody is screwed up.
Just thank GM for the Auto...

I just did and it doesnt matter which.

ok, here goes some simple google digs

iraq war cost




Amtrak subsidie cost



2014-1972 = 42 years

309523809 dollars per year (309 million)

a lot of that is picking up routes the railroads dumped.

13 billion....the big box store I work at (its not walmart) makes more than that every year. If you ask me the money complaints is just bollucks, its all political.

It goes back to interurbans abandoning because of cars, ticket prices had trouble covering expenses and getting riders, but there were plenty who wanted to ride the passenger trains, you could not give them up. Thats why Amtrak, that why many transit systems went public because it was -needed-.

The railroad passenger service is still a core need for this nation however way you may find to support it. Otherwise you force people to cars and clog more highways.

The problems with such a comparison:

1) Just because a bigger and/or more questionable expenditure (shall we call it a "waste"?) was made elsewhere, that has nothing whatsoever to do with defending or excusing the validity or effectiveness of the expenditure being discussed (in this case, Amtrak). It's entirely possible neither of them should have ever been done/spent in the first place.

2) You can always steer the estimates of "costs" seventeen ways to Sunday to support or attack the cause in question.
Opponents of the Iraq War are, of course, eager to inflate the costs in any way they can, such as factoring in the long-term care of combat veterans as part of the cost. If we're going to be honest with ourselves and this discussion, we also have to add in the billions of capital and infrastructure costs spent on purchasing Amtrak rolling stock and maintaining the Northeast Corridor and other Amtrak-owned trackage in Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc. This money, which DOES NOT show up on the annual operations subsidy appropriation, at times equals or exceeds the operation appropriation. It's as intellectually dishonest as factoring in only the cost of gas and insurance as your annual driving cost, while ignoring the cost of the car or its repairs/maintenance. Never mind that that's exactly how too many people do accounting and budgeting, and is par for politics.


Here's a valid consideration: The "big box store", assuming you're talking about a large chain like Bullseye, Bunns & Noodle, House Station, etc. most likely directly serves far more individuals nationwide, and on a more frequent basis--all of whom have made a conscientious and deliberate decision to support said business voluntarily with their purchases (leaving aside the hazy issue of the occasional "subsidy" of stores and shopping centers with bus routes, tax breaks, etc.).