I saw this on their Facebook apparently IRM has acquired former CN steam generator car 15444
http://www2.irm.org/blogs/archives/1781 ... 15444.html

Good for them! I've often wondered why more museums don't use the steam heat which is to a greater or lessor extent intact on older equipment.

if they plan to run more diesel in cooler days its a bonus, the newly restored steam may not operate all the time. Some electric engines could be used as well. But it depends actually if the 2-10-0 is setup to run steam to the train. It shouldnt be that difficult to add a steam line, but we'll see what they do.

While I haven't seen the Facebook posting, the IRM web site "blog" has a bit of speculation on how the steam generator car could be used. I applaud Nick and Roger for seeing and seizing the opportunity!



The cab of SLSF 1630 has the appropriate plumbing, valve, and gauge for supplying steam heat. My recollection is that the piping terminates below the cab, and that the tender does not have the appropriate piping or steam line fittings near the knuckle. Also, the "Bottle Car" (GPEX 1021, Express Reefer, converted for bottle-car service) which is typically coupled behind 1630 does not have a steam line, so this would also need to be addressed if 1630 were to be used to provide train heat via the steam line.

It may be that the piping spaces originally used for steam line pipes on the tender and/or the "Bottle Car" have been re-purposed for water service. From 300 or so miles away, I am not in a position to speculate on the difficulty of updating the Steam Department-controlled equipment to provide a useful steam line.

Even if all of the required steam line plumbing were intact and functional, the IRM Steam Department has a (recent?) tendency to avoid firing up steam in the colder months, in part due to worries about freeze damage, and also as a logistical issue.

The Steam Department operating schedule tends to have accrued, by September, up to 31 in-service days during the Museum's "regular season". Then the part 230.14-mandated 31-day inspection is planned to be handled over the fall, winter, and early spring months, as crews and resources permit, as part of the part 230.16-mandated annual inspection. So it is common that SLSF 1630 would be out-of-service due to inspection work during the times of year when an operative steam line is most needed.

While it seems to me that SLSF 1630 is unlikely to provide "useful" steam heat to IRM trains any time soon, I hope that the steam generator car acquisition can be placed into service and used in ways that can provide increased comfort to our riders in the colder months.

(Disclaimer: These comments herein are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the policies of the Illinois Railway Museum, the IRM Steam Department, or any other Department or volunteer or member. Note that my recent participation at the Museum in general and the Steam Shop in specific has been seriously limited, so plans, policies, and/or ideas may have changed in my absence.)

Regards,
Bob Milhaupt
Occasional Illinois Railway Museum Steam Department Volunteer

Was there ever any serious plan to actually use this car as it was built? I assume it was for the collection and little else.
I know of several of these steam generator cars and am unaware of any of them actually being used as such, or even moved in trains. I know there's one at Portland with the 4449 crew, even painted in Daylight colors, but I've never even heard of it being used in a train for any reasons.

The steam heat piping on 1630's tender that IRM added years ago was indeed re-purposed to be the water connection between the A-tank and the tender. If the modifications were undone, a new way of getting water from the A-tank into the tender without a pump will be needed.

I'm not sure about the water bottle, but I suspect that the same modifications were done, as the location the water line comes out from under the car is exactly the same location that a steam line would be.

On the note of these cars being used as intended; Monticello Railway Museum has a sister car that is half HEP/half Steam Gen and is operational. I believe Mid-Continent in North Freedom, Wis. also has a functioning steam generator (ex-GN IIRC) in service.

I'm not in a position to speculate on how this car will be used (or restored), it comes down to the appropriate managers, in this case Coach Dept. Curator Paul Cronin.

Well, Bubly beat me to it, but here is a photo of Monticello's ex-CN car in service, and a link to it in service on NS's Santa train in 2012.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkqgBDKnScI

As Bulby pointed out, we removed one steam generator and installed an HEP genset to provide electrical power to the train. (and the remaining steam generator) We currently heat four cars with steam, the rest being electric heat. Steam generators, at least the 4625 models, are easy to get parts for, as they are still actively supported, and in fact new ones are available, for about $75K per copy. Ours has been running pretty reliably of late. Mostly, we think, because we shake a box of spare parts at it each time we start it.

Kent

I think it is interesting to pause and reflect on what was required 40 years ago to get a train over the road in winter. Seems I recall it was normal to have, what?, three or four diesels (couple of A's and B's), then add a steam generator (or two?). Imagine how much effort this all required.

Today, with head end power, most trains make it with one diesel, maybe two.

They (ORHF) use it to warm up the steam locomotive before firing it up for a trip. there is no need to take it along.

IRM already stated what they are going to use theirs for.

Or 5 or 6 diesels, to make sure you had enough steam generators to make the trip. You could always count on a few to poop out enroute. Everybody hated those things; they were always situated so you'd either burn yourself or shock yourself working on them enroute. And let's not even think about the E units and geeps on which the toilet was situated about 6 inches away from this roaring, snorting, fire-breathing thing.

Even then, long trains had a tendency to be very cold at the rear cars due to the steam consumed by the cars ahead of them. There were freeze-ups of rear cars, too. For that reason, some roads (notably UP) put steam generator cars at the rear of these long trains in winter, which let them pump steam both directions, keeping the rear cars warm. Kind of like DPU for steam heat and hot water in the bathrooms and diners.

These boiler cars had big automated boilers (Vapor Clarkson 4670 or 4760 or something like that) with equipment to blow themselves down at prescribed intervals. They had 250 or 300 gallon fuel tanks, a 5,000 gallon water tank, and a small diesel genset to make power for the boiler. They still had to be checked and fueled enroute, too.

Correct. GN, and later BN, referred to their steam generators as heater cars, and MCRM has GN #6 (AC&F, 1913), built as 40' RPO #90. Full history here: http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/stlpas/gn90.html

#6 was 1 of 3 steam generators WP purchased from GN in 1968 (as #593), the other 2 acquired were GN #1 & #2 (StLCC, 1928), as #591 & #592.



GN #1 is owned by Doyle McCormack as DLMX #8645 Little Boy:

As GN #1 at Skykomish, WA: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4070823 (Al Chione Collection)

As DLMX #8645:

5/15/2004: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3672969 (K.J. Larson photo)

5/21/2006: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=999090 (Robert Ulberg photo)

3/8/2014: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3876338 (B. Campbell photo)

GN #2 is located in Pasco, WA, formerly lettered as Northwestern Rail Equipment (NRE) #2, currently lettered as New Century Rail Transport (NCBX) #592:

7/8/2006: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=999091 (Robert Ulberg photo)

7/10/2006: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=429189 (Al Ahlgrim photo)

Between 1965 and 1967, GN rebuilt 9 F3B's and 1 F9B to steam generators #10-#19:

F3B #354B (serial #4695, 12/1947) to #10 (7/1/1965) to BN to Amtrak #1910 (8/23/1972) to #660 (1977) sold in June 1984 to Sierra Western RR. I don't know if the #660 was ever used on the North Coast Daylight excursions over the Northwestern Pacific (during the Eureka Southern years); it has been photographed in Willits, still in Amtrak Phase II. In my notes I have the #660 as named Hercules, I don't know if this was actually applied.

F3B #434B (serial #4817, 9/1948) to #11 (1/3/1966) to BN to Amtrak #1911 (8/24/1972) to #661 (1977), retired in 1984, further disposition unknown.

F3B #430C (serial #4814, 8/1948) to #12 (2/1/1966) to BN to Amtrak #1912 (8/22/1972) to #662 (1977) sold in 1984 to Western RY Museum, later (when??) to Western Pacific RR Museum, still in Amtrak Phase I.

F3B #432B (serial #4815, 8/1948) to #13 (6/16/1966) to BN to Amtrak #1913 (8/22/1972) to #663 (1977) sold at unknown date to Lake Shore RHS, later (when??) to Indiana Transportation Museum (Noblesville).

F3B #430B (serial #4813, 8/1948) to #14 (9/12/1966) to BN to Amtrak #1914 (8/26/1972) to #664 (1977), wrecked in May 1979 at Kennewick, WA (same wreck as GN dome chair #1321/Amtrak #9461).

F3B #436C (serial #4820, 9/1948) to #15 (2/15/1967) to BN to Amtrak #1915 (8/23/1972) to #665 (1977) sold in November 1985 to FRA-Transportation Technology Center, now AAR-TTCI as #104 (Pueblo, CO).

F3B #306B (serial #4825, 10/1948) to #458B (1952) to #16 (4/4/1967) to BN, retained, sold in 1982 to Minnesota Transportation Museum, still in BN Cascade Green.

F3B #436B (serial #4819, 9/1948) to #17 (6/1/1967) to BN, retained, retirement date and disposition unknown.

F9B #470C (serial #19335, 2/1954) to #18 (8/7/1967) to BN, retained, retirement date and disposition unknown.

F3B #438B (serial #8016, 10/1948) to #19 (9/1/1967) to BN, retained, sold at unknown date to Lake Whatcom RY (Wickersham, WA), still in BN Cascade Green.

Sources:

1. Ben Ringnalda's GN website:

___1a. Main page: http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/

___1b. Passenger F3B roster: http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/GNEGNDieselRosterF3BP.htm

___1c. Freight F3B roster: http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/GNEGNDieselRosterF3BF.htm

___1d. F9B roster: http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/GNEGNDieselRosterF9B.htm

___1e. Surviving GN heater cars: http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/GNEPreservedGNPassengerCars_HeaterCars.htm

2. Minnesota Transportation Museum website:

___2a. Main page: http://www.mtmuseum.org/

___2b. GN heater car #16: http://www.mtmuseum.org/roster.php?page=gn16

___2c. GN F7A #454A: http://www.mtmuseum.org/roster.php?div=jsr&page=gn454A

3. Andrew Toppan's list of surviving F units: http://membrane.com/~elmer/rail/units/f_units.html

4. Friends of the 4449 roster page: http://www.4449.com/roster.html

5. Mid-Continent Railway Museum:

___4a. Main page: http://www.midcontinent.org/

___4b. GN #90: http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/stlpas/gn90.html

6. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

_________________
Happy New Year!

The power car at Mid-Continent providing heat.

Traded to WPRM -May 8, 2005.

Believe this has since been scrapped.

In the "City of Everywhere" era, the UP converted several baggage-dormitory cars into steam generator-dormitory cars. I never realized the boilers used were that large, but it would explain why UP put a three axle truck under the generator end of these cars, giving you an odd, five axle passenger car. At least one of these cars survives in the UP heritage fleet.

As a side note, the EMD FTB that is on display at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis was converted by the Southern Railway into a heater car. MOT has the interior lighted, and you can see two steam generators and a small internal combustion generator to provide power.