I wouldn't be shocked if this whole, "You better not use this for anything other than a fixed location away from rails" thing didn't come from the same government mindset that exists with military surplus. It's getting really hard to be able to buy anything useable from the DoD through surplus channels anymore. And looking to buy anything from a warplane bigger than your fingernail? Guess again, that stuff goes through a giant metal chipper machine and comes to you in the form of metal confetti after you've won the auction.

If that is Amtrak's policy, how would new start tourist lines be able to acquire any used coaches? Or even existing tourist lines to acquire some of the cars for various uses, snack bar car, bike car, etc. It seems like Amtrak does not want to see the cars again, so scrapping them is the only solution, they want to bury the past forever. What about Amtrak locomotives built in the 70's and 80's like F40PH's and AEM7's, are those going to meet the cutter, too? But, I'd rather see the toasters cut up than steam locos, lol.

What would stop one of the big brokers or Iowa Pacific from buying some cars? The few diners probably still have a high value, I doubt most museums can afford the ballpark rate for cars in that condition. The baggage cars at least have usable parts. There might be some sleepers and coaches around too. It is well maintained and interchangeable Budd stuff. If Amtrak sells it all for scrap value, or worse, pays for disposal, they will be ripping taxpayers off.

They could well go to GSA auction. That way Amtrak washes it's hands of the cars and certain conditions can be placed on the sale, such as "no Amtrak certification", etc. A lot of stuff goes through them and only certain select items get "Demil" treatment-mostly combat aircraft. Though that doesn't mean that sometimes things slip through (intentionally or otherwise).

I believe Amtrak is down to a scant few Heritage diners and baggage cars; the sleepers and coaches should have been gone for a few years, absent some spare-parts carcasses at Beech Grove or the like.

And "ripping off the taxpayers" presumes that there are buyers eager to pay far more than scrap value. Transport, storage, and repair costs associated with acquisition often make this not the case. And remember, all the nattering nabobs of telling other people what to do with their assets don't suggest buying these cars, but insist "Amtrak shuld give them all 2 museems!!"

Having traveled on the "Silver Service" trains regularly for almost 15 years, I have observed these diners are on borrowed time. There is not much original classic fabric left that I can see and the present interiors are well worn. I do not see a high resale value here.

Wesley

There are several former 10-6 sleepers stored at Beech Grove, all of which were reconfigured 1997-2000 to crew dormitory-lounges, with removal of the double bedrooms. These cars are of UP and AT&SF heritage (the Pacific and Pine series respectively). The last of these converted crew dorms were removed from service in 2007, and 3 were returned to service in 2008 as "company service" cars:

#2504 Pacific Bend to #10020, used with the exhibit train.

#2521 Pacific Cape to #10021, Amtrak executive use, such as the trip to TTCI in Pueblo to see the new ACS-64 electrics being tested.

#2509 Pacific Terrace to buffer car #10405, used for movement of cars between Chicago and Beech Grove.

#2505 Pacific Forest was planned as #10022, but this was cancelled and the car is currently stored.



Correct. All the remaining diners have been extensively rebuilt/modified, and among the active cars are 3 which were not even built as diners. As mentioned earlier, 1 was built in 1951 as PRR Congressional parlor Molly Pitcher (#8530), and 2 were built in 1956 as CB&Q 50 seat chairs (#8531 and #8532).

There's the "dorm" sleepers that were mentioned, and there are or were a couple of heritage Budd coaches in MOW service in the east. I think they were rebuilt for Adirondack service. And there's that one dome car that must be escalating costs for Amtrak.



What I am referring to is that there seems to be somewhat of a hot market for tube quality or higher Budd cars that can be shipped rolling on their own wheels. Especially if they have HEP and are Amtrak certifiable. And especially if they are "interesting" cars like diners. Originality or "historic fabric" doesn't matter that much if they get tubed. They often go for well over scrap value, and whatever Amtrak has around easily could unless they artificially depress the price with arbitrary stipulations like "no certification" or "no commercial use".

I actually am amazed at what railfan "brokers" must have paid to beat scrap value and the additional costs incurred for a lot of cars that have ended up sitting for years. Specifically, all the junky LIRR, Metra, and NJT commuter equipment that's been out there.

I know some of those guys. One even posts here occasionally.

The operative expression: "Wanna make a small fortune in passenger cars? Start with a GIGANTIC fortune!"

Funny! Check again. Don't let "stainless steel" distract you from varied grades and dissimilar metal corrosion. Nothing lasts forever.

I'm having a very hard time believing that there is any sort of 'demil' requirement on sold equipment. The military recently was forced to revise their sales standards (they were requiring destruction unnecessarily), I'd hate to think what would happen if a Republican congress found out Amtrak was wasting tax dollars.

CD

I believe GSA only disposes of assets of government agencies, not private companies whose stock happens to be held by the government.

Amtrak does get their work vehicles through the GSA contracting/leasing process.

Certain equipment that could be used in military applications is required to be demilled prior to deaccession. Usually those pieces fall into certain categories such as aircraft and armored vehicles. I do know that for military aircraft such as fighter airplanes, sale to civilians is possible, but only after demil process. That involves removing sensitive military equipment, permanently disabling weapons systems and cutting the airframe in multiple locations.

Of course, that only applies to equipment sold by the US government. It is possible to import fighter aircraft from abroad that can be returned to airworthy status. Most of the T-33/CT-33 aircraft currently flying are ex-RCAF birds that were imported back.

Transport aircraft can be transferred without clipping the wings. Recently a VC-9 that was stored up in Phoenix was offered for sale at auction.

In a fairly extreme instance of such detail to preservation, there existed out there a military-grade Humvee prototype in civilian hands that was purchased from the maker after Rockwell was done with it for planning how to install radio and other technical and communications gear. He bought it specifically for preservation, and swapped out the (classified) communications gear for ham-radio gear.
He said "the sucker will do anything you want except pass the gas station......"