Illinois Railway Museum Aquires Steam Generation Unit

HudsonL · **Joined:** Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am **Posts:** 548

Some builders photos of Northern Pacific Heater Cars converted from Steam Locomotive Tenders.

http://www.gn-npjointarchive.org/_layou ... 0View.aspx#InplviewHashb6926f21-c581-421d-ade2-c7717c8b508c=FilterField1%3DcbxEquipType-FilterValue1%3DHeater%2520Car

Some of these cars later went to AutoTrain and Algoma Central.

-Hudson

Edit: try this tinyurl instead

http://tinyurl.com/pcywlpz

kemcclure · **Posted:** Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:27 pm

wilkinsd wrote:

In the "City of Everywhere" era, the UP converted several baggage-dormitory cars into steam generator-dormitory cars. I never realized the boilers used were that large, but it would explain why UP put a three axle truck under the generator end of these cars, giving you an odd, five axle passenger car. At least one of these cars survives in the UP heritage fleet.

The boilers/control cabinet proper really aren't that big. An OK 4625 (one of the most common) only weighs 4000 lbs dry, and the coils of the boiler only hold about 25 gallons of water. I expect that extra axle was for the thousands of gallons of water they would have to carry to supply the boiler. (And likely about 500 or so gallons of fuel.)

An OK-4625 at full fire will evaporate 330 gallons of water/hour. Their big unit, the OK-4740 (Indiana Transportation Museum has a pair in a B-unit body) will evaporate 539 gallons per hour running flat out. Those rates are at respective fuel consumption rates of 32 gallons/hour and 51 gallons/hour.

Kent

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:49 pm

wilkinsd wrote:

In the "City of Everywhere" era, the UP converted several baggage-dormitory cars into steam generator-dormitory cars. I never realized the boilers used were that large, but it would explain why UP put a three axle truck under the generator end of these cars, giving you an odd, five axle passenger car. At least one of these cars survives in the UP heritage fleet.

From Don Strack's website:

In February 1946, C&NW and UP placed an order with AC&F for 12 baggage dormitories, which were delivered between July and September 1949 as C&NW #9300-#9302 (Lot #3037) and UP #6000-#6008 (Lot #3029). 5 of the UP cars were rebuilt in 1962 to steam generator-dormitories #300-#304 (referred to in UP records as boiler-dormitories), and 3 are still in active use as UPP #207-#209, see below.

C&NW #9300 reconfigured in 1960 to baggage #8902, transferred in 1971 to MofW as #X-251032.

C&NW #9301 sold in 1962 to NP and reconfigured to 30' RPO-dormitory #430, stored in 1971.

C&NW #9302 reconfigured in 1960 to baggage #8903, transferred in 1971 to MofW as #X-300796, donated in 1984 to Mid-Continent for use as a tool car for #1385: http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/stlpas/cnw8903.html

UP #6000 rebuilt in 1962 to boiler-dormitory #300, sold in 1989 to Les Kasten, later resold to Arizona Railcar in Tucson.

UP #6001 rebuilt in 1962 to boiler-dormitory #302, renumbered in 1987 to UPP #207, rebuilt in 1991 to HEP generator (#800616).

UP #6002 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #1570, retired in October 1981 and sold in 1982 to Peter Robbins, later resold to FCP and reconfigured to sleeper Divisadero (#800252).

UP #6003 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #1571, retired in July 1981 and sold in 1982 to Western New York RHS.

UP #6004 rebuilt in 1962 to boiler-dormitory #303, renumbered in 1987 to UPP #208, rebuilt in 1991 to HEP generator (anyone know the #800xxx-series number?).

UP #6005 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #1572, retired in July 1981 and sold to W. Stouffer.

UP #6006 rebuilt in 1962 to boiler-dormitory #304, renumbered in 1987 to UPP #209, rebuilt in 1993 to HEP generator, with steam generator retained for providing steam to the #844 and #3985 during fire-up, named Howard Fogg in 1997. Car currently also houses laundry, break room, luggage room, 2 dorm rooms, and an office. The #209 now rides on a pair of 3 axle trucks, changed from the 2-and-3 arrangement in 2009. Anyone know the #800xxx-series number?

UP #6007 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #1573, retired in July 1981 and sold in 1982 to Peter Robbins, later resold to FCP and reconfigured to sleeper Ing. Ballesteros (#800473).

UP #6008 rebuilt in 1962 to boiler-dormitory #301 sold in 1989 to Northern Rail Car, resold in 1993 to American-European Express as #800562 London. To my knowledge, the London was not part of the later AOE roster; does anybody know where this car ended up?

Sources:

1. Don Strack's UP passenger car pages:

___1a. Main page: http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-index.php

___1b. UPP #207 & #208: http://utahrails.net/pass/heritage-fleet-2.php#upp207

___1c. UPP #209: http://utahrails.net/pass/heritage-fleet-2.php#upp209

___1d. UP #300-#304: http://utahrails.net/pass/heritage-fleet-2.php#up300

___1e. UP #6000-#6009: http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-numbered-7.php#boiler-dormitory-6000

___1f. C&NW cars painted UP Armour Yellow: http://utahrails.net/pass/pass-non-up.php#heading_toc_j_1

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

3. "Railway Passenger Car Annual: Volume Six, 1984" by W. David Randall and Elbert Simon (RPC Publications, 1984)

4. Mike Palmieri's Amtrak rosters

5. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

6. Stan Garner's list of #800xxx-series car numbers: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

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Zak Lybrand · **Joined:** Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:57 am **Posts:** 210

Congratulations to the IRM on acquiring this car! Just as a friendly heads up, and speaking from experience servicing two sister cars at Grand Canyon Railway, if your don't have a pit or a very low spot in the road bed, the brakes are an absolute nightmare to change. Those trucks are very, very cramped!

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:59 am

More info on the GN steam generators:

GN #1-#4:

GN #1-#4 were built by St. Louis Car Co. in 1928, each with a 150 psi center-mounted boiler, measuring 73.25" in diameter, 86.625" tall, with 480 1.5" flues, measuring 59.75" in length, the heating surface of the firebox was 35 sq. feet, the heating surface of the tubes was 922 sq. feet. Water was held in 3 corner-mounted tanks connected with 6" piping, each measuring 9' x 6' x 3', for a capacity of 3,570 gallons. The 2 pop valves measured 1.5" open, the steam gauge was an Ashcroft Electrical Control 300, with a Reliance JR low water alarm, the water pump was a Warren Special measuring 4.5" x 2.75" x 4", the feed pump governor was a Fisher 0.5" angle type, the inspirator was a Hancock #25. Fuel oil was held in the fourth corner-mounted tank measuring 9' x 5'6" x 3' for a capacity of 1,100 gallons, the oil pump was a Warren Special measuring 3" x 2" x 3", the oil pump governor was a Fisher 0.375" angle type. These cars were also equipped with a Type E dynamo and a MVAH-17 battery. All equipment was installed by GN, recorded in Appplication for Expenditure (AFE) 34978.

Total car length was 43'8.125" over coupler pulling faces (buffers), the length over framing was 40', and the inside length was 39'4.75". These cars rode on 2 axle Commonwealth cast steel trucks with 36.5" rolled steel wheels, with a truck wheelbase of 8', and a center wheelbase of 26'. The car width over framing was 9'11.875", the width over crown molding was 11'2.5" and the inside width was 9'4.25". Total height from the top of the rail to the top of the boiler stack was 16'4". These cars had a total weight of 161,400 lbs.

In 1946, GN re-equipped #1 & #2, recorded in AFE's 71167 & 72500:

The original boiler was replaced by 2 Vapor Clarkson steam generators. A diesel motor-generator replaced the original Type E dynamo, with 64 volt exide batteries. The air compressor was a single stage Devilbiss. The total light weight was 128,000 lbs. and the weight when filled was 166,550 lbs. Further changes were made under AFE 86486, with the 2 steam generators afterwards listed as Vapor CFK-4225, steam generation capacity was afterwards listed as 4,500 lbs. per hour.

In 1954, GN re-equipped #3 & #4:

#3 was re-equipped under AFE 84943:

The original boiler was replaced by 2 Vapor OK-4740 steam generators, with a total generation capacity of 9,000 lbs. per hour. A 50 hp #311 diesel engine provided electricity, including 18 kw of lighting, with 64 volt batteries. The air compressor was a Gardner-Denver ADF. The total weight when filled was 165,700 lbs.

#4 was re-equipped under AFE's 84031 & 89526:

The original boiler was replaced by a single Vapor OK-4740 steam generator with a generation capacity of 4,500 lbs. per hour. A 43 hp General Motors diesel engine provided electricity, including 10 kw of lighting, with 64 volt batteries. The air compressor was a Gardner-Denver ADF. The total weight when filled was 161,000 lbs.

I'll post info on #5-#9 later.

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dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

Lincoln Penn wrote:

p51 wrote:

Was there ever any serious plan to actually use this car as it was built? I assume it was for the collection and little else.
I know of several of these steam generator cars and am unaware of any of them actually being used as such, or even moved in trains. I know there's one at Portland with the 4449 crew, even painted in Daylight colors, but I've never even heard of it being used in a train for any reasons.

They (ORHF) use it to warm up the steam locomotive before firing it up for a trip. there is no need to take it along.

IRM already stated what they are going to use theirs for.

Quote:

We now will have the opportunity to run late fall and early winter passenger consists using steam heat and the electrical capability that it offers.

just to get that info here...that can extend their open times

HudsonL · **Joined:** Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am **Posts:** 548

Quote:

The boilers/control cabinet proper really aren't that big. An OK 4625 (one of the most common) only weighs 4000 lbs dry, and the coils of the boiler only hold about 25 gallons of water.

Are you sure about that weight? The last one I helped move could could be moved by a 6000 lbs forklift only if the "fat" operator was running it, the "skinny" operator could just lift the back end of the forklift off the ground. ;-)

-Hudson (the pleasantly plump operator)

kemcclure · **Posted:** Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:52 pm

Thats what Vapor's manual for the 4625 says. Were you moving a 4625, or a bigger one? There were three models that are larger than the 4625. I don't have any info handy on what those models weigh.

Kent

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 841

wilkinsd wrote:

In the "City of Everywhere" era, the UP converted several baggage-dormitory cars into steam generator-dormitory cars. I never realized the boilers used were that large, but it would explain why UP put a three axle truck under the generator end of these cars, giving you an odd, five axle passenger car. At least one of these cars survives in the UP heritage fleet.

With a little deeper research, I learned that 3 of these cars are still in the UP fleet. 2 of them were converted into HEP cars years ago, but they still have the odd truck arrangement of a 2 axle truck under one end and a 3-axle truck under the end with the diesel HEP generators.

The other car is the one assigned to the Steam operation and has been modified to add an HEP plant. This car also now has 3 axle trucks under both ends.

HudsonL · **Joined:** Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am **Posts:** 548

Sandhouse lore says that the 5 axle HEP cars have freaked out more than one newbie when going by a talking defect detector and getting a odd number axle count ;-). Bad enough all the hot boxes on the lead unit, but then the axle count is a odd number.

-Hudson

Jdelhaye · **Posted:** Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:39 pm

HudsonL wrote:

Sandhouse lore says that the 5 axle HEP cars have freaked out more than one newbie when going by a talking defect detector and getting a odd number axle count ;-). Bad enough all the hot boxes on the lead unit, but then the axle count is a odd number.

-Hudson

I'd think the 7 axle centipede tender would have the same effect. (or even the count out)

Jeff

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 841

Jdelhaye wrote:

I'd think the 7 axle centipede tender would have the same effect. (or even the count out)

Jeff

When they ran with one 5-axle car, the 7 axle centipede tender would give them an even number on the total axle count.

UP Rotary snowplows also have 5 axles.

Newbie pilot crews and some dispatchers would freak over the hot axles until one of the assigned crew made them read the section in the timetable special instructions that covers it. If they insisted on making an issue out of it even after that, the manager would simply say, "Don't read the SI's very much, eh? Maybe it's time you took a rules exam to see what else you don't know."

Occasionally it was done on the radio, so everybody in range could hear the "victim" embarass him/herself.

That ended the discussion.

hamster · **Posted:** Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:00 pm

Chris Salmonson wrote:

The power car at Mid-Continent providing heat.

The power car at Mid-Continent is former Great Northern No. 90. Its history is here.
http://www.midcontinent.org/collectn/stlpas/gn90.html

When we acquired the car, the BN had removed the diesel generator and left the flash boilers. The boilers were too far gone to be rebuilt and were scrapped. They were replaced by a portable "package" boiler of about half the capacity of the originals. The boiler is capable of easily heating about 6 cars.

Bad Order · **Joined:** Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:16 pm **Posts:** 225

What were the air compressors installed in the heater cars used for? Fuel atomization for the boilers?

Lincoln Penn · **Joined:** Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm **Posts:** 841

Bad Order wrote:

What were the air compressors installed in the heater cars used for? Fuel atomization for the boilers?

Correct.

Illinois Railway Museum Aquires Steam Generation Unit

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