Which of you will be installing PTC?
(Positive Train Control)

To be honest, I don't see many tourist lines and museums installing PTC. Now as for locomotives that run on the mainline steam or diesel, I am legitimately interested in seeing how PTC will affect them.

My question was motivated by Trains news item

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2015/03/ptc-and-shortline-show

For steam engines they should have some kind of visual monitor for the engineer, and even the regular locos out there should too. If theres some detection of a problem it would probably apply brakes. Usually tho a mainline excursion train is preceded by an inspection car as I have seen on some trips. They're not about to let a big steamer go crashing into anything.

Signal malfunctions the PTC could detect that if programmed in somehow if a train overpasses a faulty signal it may alert proper trains.

I think its important for regular service trains, but since an excursion train has so much attention to it, problems ahead are quickly communicated, but for like some of the accidents we know of, it can be of value. I don't think smaller operations and tourist lines really need it.

I'm reminded engines like 765 had auto-stop installed in regular service, if a signal got overrun a detector kicks the brakes in from a sideline actuator (magnetic), so versions of auto-braking control isnt new.

Museum locomotives equipped with PTC for mainline excursion service definitely aren't out of the question.

We will be operating steam alongside freight and passengers trains in mainline operations. Lots of questions on how PTC will affect our locomotive, not many answers. If anyone has insight, please share it.

Have fun reading:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-12 ... -29334.htm

It can only get into the braking system, I'll read that gov thing later. Point is if you let systems like this get too much control you don't know how technical failures etc might actually play havoc than help. Or if hacking can actually happen....

Seems as if this issue should be getting more coverage by the national organizations as it directly affects where and how the various preservation groups will be able to operate their equipment in the future.

I'm sure ATTRM is looking into it as needs be, and will advise us accordingly when they reach a consensus.

dave

That government doc is just hard reading any sense. Its a lot of government mumble jumbo with info data mixed in. The basics are simple, just getting a higher tech involved in train control, its meaningful for mainline railroad freight and passenger and secondary and dense operations, it may give a more accurate train location that just block by block signalling, but signalling is carefully designed for where and why its positioned. PTC just gives more data for circumstances beyond the signal system. You should never rely directly on PTC however.
It should be a suppliment for current signaling systems.It shows you can use it in dark territory, sure. But you have radios too. As a comparison, working a model railroad club layout we relied on telephones to talk to the dispatcher, and I used magnetic ID's to position trains where they were cleared to, it was essentially dark territory operation, the trains reported their arrival destinations and the got orders for their next move. So you can have multiple trains in dark territory and no signals, no PTC, just radios and you can coordinate all your moves, thats clearly possible.

Yes, fascinating reading.............

Here is a PTC summary that lists the vendors that are producing systems:

http://transitwireless.org/wp-content/u ... 2_ver2.pdf

The Federal Register citation given above for the was the "Notice of proposed rulemaking," i.e., a draft of the rules provided for comments.

The final rule (i.e., the version that has been accepted and will be enforced) is at https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... ystems-rrr. The Federal Register publication of the final rules only includes the changes being made. It often does not include the full text of the revised regulation. When only parts of a regulation are being changed, the context and full text of the regulation is lacking. The Federal Register notice needs to be read in conjunction with the actual Code of Federal Regulations sections.

Preceding the final language is a detailed discussion of comments received during the comment period and FRA's rationale on why they were or weren't accepted. These comments aren't published in the CFR in which the final regulation is published, but can be very helpful in interpreting the regulations and their rationale.

(I spent 21 years deciphering laws and regulations, but as they related to employment, not transportation. I haven't had a reason or desire to look at one since I retired 27 months ago.)

The section on small railroads that operate over a portion of a larger railroad's PTC territory having to file PTCIP reports each year on their progress in installing PTC on their locomotives is worth reading.

ATRRM has indeed addressed PTC shortly after the rule was issued. A Regulatory Action Summary (these are prepared to explain regulations to our members) can be found on the ATRRM website under Resources, then Regulations, then Final Rules. The URL is www.atrrm.org/index.php/resources/regul ... trols/file.

Aaron Isaacs, editor
Tourist Railroads & Railway Museums