Apparently the T1 trust has magic powers because the just said they already have track available to run on for when the engine is complete.
https://www.facebook.com/t1locomotive/p ... 0470198599

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I'm guessing if they can get a T1 to Strasburg somehow, Kelly and company will be glad to let it run back and forth a few times, although admittedly at something less than 140 MPH. ;-)

Interestingly, you don't mention #31/7312 in that comment. Perhaps it was an omission, or perhaps it will be running elsewhere, maybe at a railroad in Maryland that you guys are consulting on/running in the future? ;)

I hope everyone realizes that I was referring to mainline locomotives that operate on host railroads and not locomotives operating on their own railroads.

FWIW, one of the principals of the T-1 Trust owns a railroad in the south. Pretty sure they will have a place to run it. The rest, well that's 15 to 20 years off. A lot can and will happen between now and then. I am rather certain they will succeed. If you check out their various discussion groups on their website, you will see how they are approaching the engineering and design in a structured, logical manner, as well as researching and contacting a number of different foundries to find out what their capabilities and capacities are.

Rob Gardner

$200,000 won't even get you in the front door or even get a test plan written fo something like this. Need another 0 and probably a 3 on the left side. As to the comment about running without instrumentation at Pueblo that would never be allowed to happen. TTCI is super safety cautious so with an unknown vehicle instrumentation is required to ensure proper safety criteria are being met. As I mentioned in another post this will probably require an instrumented driver, a back of the envelope guess at $1m.

I think your argument is to some extent correct, but I think you totally miss the point. Yes no one knows what will be the case in 2035, but if I'm looking at how I'm going to allocate my donations ( and face the fact that not all, if even a majority of the T1 trust donations will be "new money" but diverted from other preservation efforts) I would like some assurance that there will be a return on our contributions. The T1 trust is asking the community to make a $10M bet that something will be available in 20 years. If I invest in the 611 on the other hand I have a reasonable assurance that those $ will result in a working locomotive and operated in a friendly environment. So the argument really isn't about what are the conditions/operating environment in 2035 but what will it be when the locomotive becomes available.

BTW I'm begining to have significant doubts on the $10M number. Think for s moment about the NJT dual mode locomotives for example. These use basically off the shelf components although in a unique combination. They are about $10M a pop. Do we really think we can build a locomotive of all custom built components, where in many cases manufacturing capability is absent, for about the same price?

The big difference between the T1 and the Tornado projects is that the Tornado folks knew when they started that they would have a place to operate. The locomotive was intended for the British main line environment and the requirements to run there were well known. And the locomotive was a good fit.

This is completely different in the case of the T1. The US is, to say the least, unfriendly to steam. The UP is "friendly" but only to its own cast of characters. NS is similarly friendly, but only on a limited basis. BNSF is kind of friendly. Milwaukee 261 runs on the BNSF but only on certain divisions. The formerly friendly environment in Wisconsin is now decidedly unfriendly with WATCO calling the shots. And we know all about CSX, CP and CN.

So the T1 group is plunging forward and hoping for the best. Not a good business plan.

Buslist - what you are forgetting is labor cost. The trust is made up with professionals that are donating their time. Yes this is slower, but the cost is a huge savings. If you look at the thousands of hours they have spent scanning original drawings and converting them in CAD you already have a large in kind donation number. It is quite likely they have spent 2000 hours on the project by engineers that typically get in the $120/hr range (and higher in many cases). Using these numbers they have already done $240,000 in kind work on this project. This how the A1 built their locomotive using this same principals.

If you look at the NJT Dual mode locomotive you stated in your example. That $10 mill cost would likely be broken down to $4 mil cost of goods, $2 mil Labor and $2 mil in profit for manufacturer. So if you remove labor and profit, the actual cost for that locomotive is around $4 mil.

The same math for-profit businesses use does not work here. With thousands of hours of free labor, plus in kind donations, 10 million is very doable for this group.

What if in 2030 there has been a resurgence in steam locomotives on the mainline and the T1 guys decided to take your advice and give up? (because that is the easy thing to do) If in 1995 you would have said 765, 4501 and 611 would be running all over the East pulling mainline trips, I would have told you that you are crazy and the only place you would see them is in a Museum stuffed and mounted. I would have been wrong.

I do not believe they are taking money away from other groups. If someone wants to donate to the 611 they will. The T1 guys are finding new people who believe in what they believe. There will always be skeptics such as yourself, but the group appears to not be phased by skeptics as they are plowing forward raising money. I would not be surprised if they top a million in donations and inkind work in the next year. There momentum will build just as the A1 group did in the early 90's. NO one thought they would do it, now you can ride behind it. It has also sparked at least another 12 new builds over there.

Success is contagious.

IMHO
Ted

Hamster - What railroad will 611 and 765 be running on in 2030? Should they not plan on having a future. Are they scamming their donors because they have no guarantees?

The answer is NO. You have to have faith moving forward or you will never get anywhere. The public is well aware of the risks, most of us lived through the mid 90's when every railroad was shutting down mainline steam and everyone said the era was over. 20 years later it is reborn.

The T1 guys have come out with 3 railroads to run on that will most likely still be around 20 years from now. I am most certain that more railroads will be added to that list as the years go by. By calling their business plan bad, you are saying the same for 611 and 765. They are using the same plan for operation 20 years from now. In fact many of the members of the T1 group are from the 765 and 611 group. Would they be involved if they thought it was going to be a failure????