Yellow Ribbon Express - Official Announcement

steamfan765 · **Joined:** Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 am **Posts:** 184

I think having 614 to be converted to run on natural gas or anything else is inhuman. 614 is a coal burner and should stay that way. If 614 was an oil burner then I see it could work out well with in the rail fan community. Now 614 is Ross's locomotive and he has the right to do whatever he wants with 614. The YRE is a great honor to those who gave up their lives for the country or for the politicians failures. It's about time that someone is trying to show that they actually care about them and help them. Any corporate sponsor that doesn't sponsor this should be ashamed of themselves. The YRE is a must for this country in my book. Ross I wish you luck for this project your the king of steam operations in my book.

Randy Musselman · **Posted:** Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:38 am

[quote]I think having 614 to be converted to run on natural gas or anything else is inhuman.[quote]

Hello,

May I respectfully disagree. Converting the 614 to CNG or LNG is an excellent idea. Along with the main goal of the YRE, showcasing America's latest energy market success story could help the mission. The old guard and foamers love to see the smoke but a perfectly clean stack would make points with the general masses. After all, it would still make "all the right noises".

We are seeing a marked increase in CNG and LNG plant developments in Pennsylvania alone, mainly for transportation use but virtual pipeline customers also. You have all the shale plays across American helping you here. In PA and Ohio you have the Marcellus and Utica plays. The pipeliners can't get it out of here fast enough. Even the Bakken with all it's oil has a large amount of associated gas they are flaring because they can't move it.

Currently, at $2.70 a Dek, natural gas may have a significant impact on the running fuel bill to power the YRE and help the general economics of the foundation....I am not following coal prices and perhaps Ross can comment on this benefit.

CNG is good since you can use it as you go. With LNG you need to use the fuel to stay ahead of the boil-off.

Also would natural gas be helpful in boiler maintenance costs? No cinder cutting, etc. Maybe with the FRA boiler rules now, this maintenance benefit may not help regardless of fuel type...I am not qualified to comment that subject.

Regards,

Randy Musselman

Frisco1522 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:19 am

You could study the ex-RDG 4-8-4 out west for a method of converting her to oil. I'm sure it worked well for them. (Yes I know it April 5).
Oil conversion actually wouldn't be the worst idea. No ashes and clinkers to deal with and fuel deliverable anywhere.
Just my $.02.

steamfan765 · **Joined:** Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:30 am **Posts:** 184

I guess I was just in the moment I guess converting 614 to natural gas isn't a bad idea I guess I'm purest I guess. Converting a coal burner to an oil burner has been done and proven but from coal to natural gas wasn't maybe? the cost would be better because no cinder cutting easier access to the fuel. Its just that if you see one run on natural gas you don't hear the natural sounds of a steam locomotive and get the experience when you see one you know. NG maybe more economical than coal I know that coal is more traditional than natural gas. It's like I said before Ross owns 614 and he can do whatever he want's if he goes through with the conversion I'll live it. just so you know I don't get to see working steam locomotives that much so it's great memories.

Randy Musselman · **Posted:** Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:55 pm

Hello,

My guess would be a NG conversion may have similar concepts as oil. You would still have heat applied in the firebox as any fuel source. The steam exhaust would still induce draft thru the petticoat pipe like normal. (normal stack noise)

Getting the stoichiometric air/fuel mix to track the load demand on the boiler may be tricky. NG burner controls could mimic stationary natural gas package boilers with a flame safety circuit tied to an electronic shut off valve as in a typical fuel gas train. If you have a flame out, the gas valve could immediately shut so you don't keep flowing raw gas. Assuming you would have a spark plug like a normal gas burner. With NG certainly supply pressure should never be an issue.

Oil burners on locomotives are not familiar to me......did they ramp up the oil flow with load on the boiler with a hand valve? Did they have a quick shut off valve in case of a flame-out? Which brings a good question, how is the flame maintained in an oil fired loco, hot fire bricks? (assuming there was not a spark plug).

Again, who knows what the FRA would say about all this, if it is a new concept, they may need to establish rules.

Yes, moving away from coal departs from the historical fabric but it could put a positive spin on marketing the YRE. You will likely find those in the United States who support the military and our veterans would likely vigorously support home grown energy as well....if it would lessen the need to go fight some of those wars......

There is fascination in seeing the old mixed with the new. Install a hardened PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) in the 614 and automate a few functions! Set your firing rate proportional to the throttle and/or cut-off settings. Small PLCs are pretty economical these days. It would be interesting.

Regards,

Randy

Dave · **Posted:** Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:59 pm

Randy - oil fired locomotive burners were either atomizing or vaporizing, with the vaporizing being modern and the atomizing being over a century old. The atomizing burners are very forgiving of heavy and sludgy and contaminated fuel stocks, the vaporizing much less so. The old school method of control was the fireman anticipating and reacting to his knowledge of the road, the quality of the fuel and load, and the engineer's actions. Flameouts were unplanned, and the residual heat in the glowing firebrick would relight the stream of oil droplets as you suggest. I'm only familiar with the vaporizing burners in use on the DLM / Sulzer modern steamers, and they are a series of burners surrounding a central "pilot light" burner which is in itself capable of maintaining spotfire steam at idle.

I'm thinking that given that both natural gas and vaporized oil are hydrocarbons atmospheres, there's a bit of a knowledge base in how they handle to start with. Fuel storage is another interesting question. LP gas? Crown Metal used it in their park trains very successfully.

dave

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1087

A June 25, 2015 article in the Omaha World Heard: Train tour commemorating WWI centennial would have stops in Omaha, Lincoln

An excerpt:

Quote:

[Ross Rowland] is organizing the Yellow Ribbon Express to commemorate World War I’s centennial. He hopes to raise $1 billion for veterans and to bring history to life for millions of people in 125 cities, including Omaha and Lincoln.

He’s also pairing up with a Lincoln resident, Alan Sands, who is developing an eight-episode TV miniseries portraying America’s role in the war through the true story of the 42nd Rainbow Brigade, made up of National Guard members from 26 states and the District of Columbia.

The two men are in the money-raising stage for the projects: Sands estimated production costs of his film at between $20 million and $50 million, depending on how the miniseries is made. Rowland has set a $100 million budget to launch the train tour.