In viewing web updates on various locomotive and car restoration projects, I have seen that in many cases patterns for new components are being made. And if the laws of human behavior apply univerally, once the needed castings have been made the patterns are put on a shelf to collect dust and may or may not ever be seen or heard from again. Meanwhile, somewhere down the street or across the country another restoration effort is in need of the same casting, and goes about making their own patterns, or doing without, while an existing pattern slowly rots away.

In the live steam hobby there used to be, or maybe still is, a central inventory of privately owned patterns that could theoretically be loaned or rented out to help like minded hobbyists procure the castings that they need. Perhaps it might be a good idea to discuss the idea of creating a similar database for full size railroad patterns and the pros and cons of doing such a thing.

This thought occurred to me as I am sitting here contemplating the prospect of making new patterns for relatively mundane Porter locomotive parts, thinking to myself that with the proliferation of Porter locomotives that someone else must have already been confronted with this problem and found a way to solve it. Perhaps the pattern that I might spend a grand to make new sits in an enginehouse somewhere ready to be thrown out during the next spring cleaning cycle. Or worse yet, lays in the back room of the foundry that made the castings, never to be picked up because the need for it has passed.

Thoughts anyone?

Concerning the patterns I and others have made for the IRM I frankly can't think of anyone else that would need one. Like a custom break shoe pattern for a Chicago street car hanger, with a railroad wheel surface. Ash pan cover for the Decapod.
Also with CAD to CNC machine and 3D printer technology getting cheaper every day the cost of the pattern in man hours is not what it used to be. And if you only need one, lost foam destroys the pattern.
However being all volunteer the IRM has trouble archiving its own things. You usually have to ask around and search until you find out where some things have been squirrelled away.

Maybe a web site with member log in to archive CAD files to make the patterns? I have used online resources like historical societies to access 2D vector files to make logo stencils.

For the most part, pattern making is not rocket science and most of the simple ones can be made for the cost of wood and your volunteer time. I have been a volunteer pattern maker for about 45 years and have supplied patterns for three organizations. Please note also that I am not soliciting more work as I am near the end of doing this sort of thing.

I have found that for the most part, each locomotive needs its own patterns and to locate a suitable pattern from another organization may take more time than to build one.

Each foundry has its own idea about how the patterns should be made and I have found that what works well for one won't be accepted by another without modification. Also patterns come back from the foundry in "used" or "modified" condition. I have both borrowed and loaned out patterns that had to be modified and even though I expect it, it is disheartening to see.

One group operated two Porters while I was there and may have grate patterns which may fit your locomotive. At least all the patterns I made for them were carefully stored in their parts loft.

One group in which I am currently a volunteer took the many patterns I made and piled them in a rather leaky trailer. A squirrel or some other critter made a shambles of the custom made cardboard boxes I stored the patterns in. I was told I could take them home and store them there, but I don't have that much room here either. There are hundreds of hours of work there which will eventually become junk.

Another group I make patterns for has them stored in an attic which may have extreme temperatures of hot and cold throughout the year. I only hope that when they are ready to be used that they will be in good condition. As you mentioned, once most of the above patterns are used once, that will be their last use or will have to be refurbished when used again in an identical project.

As far as repetition goes, I am currently making a pattern for a part I know exists elsewhere. I did not ask to borrow the patterns because of what I mentioned above. The person currently refuses to reproduce that part for whatever reason (he stated that he was too busy), so in a year or so I will have mine ready and won't have to wait for the vulgarities of others' schedules to get my parts. It would be a lot easier for me to buy the parts than to make them.

I could write more, but I also would like to hear from others.

Bernie Perch

And the people who know where stuff is (or what some pieces actually are, or what cars things came off) are retiring or moving on in other ways.

A few years ago, WRM was given a lot of patterns from the United Railroads (a San Francisco transit company before Muni assimilated all the private operators) with no documentation. Some of them are not even from railroad equipment (that is, things like manhole covers, street drain gratings). One of these days we'll get to inventorying them, I hope.

Most patterns would be unique to a locomotive, but things like water columns, glasses, gauge brackets, fire doors, headlight parts, dynamo parts, grates, compressor parts, injector parts, oil firing nozzles, grab iron stanchions, and air brake equipment have very many interchangeable, universally adopted parts that almost everyone could use. I also think laser scanning and 3-D printing could be used more often for making lost wax patterns. A central location for finding all of this would help the industry, and unique measurements could be a part of the library which would be helpful to modelers or an entity looking to rebuild such-and-such class engine.

Thinking back to a cold day of freezing rain in Marietta, Georgia many years ago when I was triaging the entire physical remains of Glover Machine Works with the roofs already half off the buildings. I think we did the best we could to retain the majority of what was for Glover locomotives, but other people who worked for Public Works actually did the loading and moving after I was gone. Whatever was not sent to the dump ended up in Kennesaw...... but a lot of very useful history was lost.

dave

We as an `Industry' need to start thinking in the 21st century and less in the 19th & 20th century on some items.

Foundries are starting to use 3D printed patterns and wax positives. So instead of storing wood & Bondo patterns it is all paper & electronic (as long as the storage media lasts). Once the 3D file is created it can be stretched and modified to either be more efficient (than could have been built from wooden patterns). Draft angles and core supports are no longer needed and with wax, plastic or Styrofoam positives metal can be minimized since there will be no sand dust in the surface layer to destroy surface finish. Also since we are no longer limited in the old limitations material can be added or removed to strengthen or lighten the final item, also flow patterns through the chambers can be made more efficient at the same time.

Currently I know of 2 places that 3D print sand molds and recently there was in industry paper announcement of a foundry printing the wax positives but can;t find their name. The 2 I know of are OK Foundry in Virginia and Hoosier Pattern Inc. of Indiana. Then you also have the other fall back of machined & carved Styrofoam positives (shape the foam [by hand, manual machine or CNC], coat it with refractory clay and pore the metal, Styrofoam just vaporizes on contact with the hot metal). You could also 3D print plastic positives and send them to a foundry to be used the same as the foam, and they travel better then the foam or wax positives. I wouldn't doubt 3/4 the mechanical people in our industry won't 3D printers in their own home/work shops.

Rich C.

Of the top of my head, I think I've got close to $20k of streetcar truck patterns in my house. And they are not small things. I don't trust my warehouse or my garage because of the lack of climate control (and a few water leaks in the case of my warehouse). At this point, I'm holding them in the best possible environment in the event that we need to run a few more pieces to finish the project. It won't be long when premium space in my house will be needed for other things and I will box them up best I can and stick them in a less protected environment. I would love to ship them off somewhere for anyone's future use.

The parts we've made haven't been made in close to 80 years. And who knows, might be the last time anyone needs them for another 80 years. Or ever.

For the few small patterns I've made I found that they are hard to store safely and take up a lot of space.

The "Live Steam Pattern Pool" last repository was someone's garage. The garage burned down and they were lost many years ago.

One of the librarians at Steamtown mentioned to me that they had a number of patterns as part of their Nathan collection. I didn't ask, but my perception was that even the paper collection hasn't been fully cataloged.

I've been in the foundry industry off and on for years, working in everything from iron foundries that pour 100 ton castings to small specialty operations that melt 300 lb. heats of steel and exotic metals. I've had the "pleasure" of literally digging through thousands of patterns trying to find the one that I need, and I've seen them stored everywhere from organized storage buildings to in a heap in a building with a shred of a roof. Unless we are real lucky every pattern needs some sort of repair work, from fixing damage in storage to changing gating or mounting/demounting to/from a board.

John Hillier is thinking along the lines that I am. I don't think there is much value in a database of patterns for one offs unique parts, but there might be for the more universally used parts. Someone recently posed the question to the T1 Trust about where they would find a new stoker for their new build. Quite possibly that would have to be built from scratch, but if that would happen I am sure that there would be other locomotive owners that would be interested in repair parts for their stokers. Whether there is a physical pattern or a CAD file for the 3D printer, the point being that at least some of the work to make those parts would not have to be redone if the pattern and design work could be shared (even at a price).

ATRRM already has a Part Exchange list serve. Perhaps this pattern database could be as simple as posting to that list serve that "so and so has a pattern to make such and such part. If interested in borrowing/renting the pattern (or buying a casting from us), contact XXX".

Our group has been collecting and creating patterns since the mid 1980’s… Our collection is related to our mission, early western narrow gauge cars.
Included are link and pin drawbars and draft gear, various cast washers, small journal boxes (pre MCB) with bearings and lids, 24” and 26” cast wheels, stake pockets, brake parts and such…

I created a catalog of parts back in 1990, when the collection of patterns was much smaller. There is a much expanded version in the works. While its not yet in print, having draft pages available makes discussions easier. One grant (for wheel patterns) was awarded in part because we share patterns.

Car parts are a bit more universal, and at least 6 other museums have cars related to ours (including Carter built cars, SPng or Westside Lumber Co.). We have cast parts for 5 or 6 other groups over the years.

The patterns are a pain to store… We have had issues with foundries wanting different board sizes or styles… We are a volunteer group… as are our customers, and the foundries we tend to use are less commercial so the process of getting a pattern out of storage, delivered to a foundry, castings quoted, getting the quote accepted by the other organization, then getting castings done and delivered can be a challenge… On the other hand, we have access to other groups’ collection of patterns, and little by little we collectively have parts needed available.

One thing that troubles me about "other groups needing that same thing" is, you want to know that at initial casting time, so you can make extras while they're pouring because it's very cheap to do so. What's not cheap is accepting the pattern back, storing it, inventorying it, retrieving it, haggling with the next foundry over technical details, risking damage, launching a new job with new minimums and new learning curve, etc. I always find it annoying when a group needs 6 so they make 6, knowing 3 other similar cars could also use 6 each, and the cost of making +1 is trivial and the cost of making +18 bearable. Once you have made enough to satisfy the needs of planet earth, throw the pattern away and make yourself the "go to" shop for that item. Easier to store cast iron than patterns. In fact, storing cast iron is inherently a hedge against the "Fe" commodity market, something every railroad should have. Speaking of that, play the market, since you are anyway.

I think a proper database of available patterns is a very good idea. It should be able to store photos of the items as well as drawings in Solidworks or whatever CAD package happens to be current.

Maintaining a data repository is not the same as sticking a floppy disk in a drawer and expecting it to work 30 years later when you pull it out.

I presently have cards amounting to some where between 150 and 200 cards from the South Buffalo Railway which are negatives for box car parts. These cards are computer punch cards with the 1 1/2" x2" negative within the card. These were made by Bethlehem Steel for S. Buffalo Rail. I would like to send these to a museum that may find a use for them and make the info available to anyone needing blueprints of such parts. While they are not patterns, the drawings and info may be very useful for making such patterns.

I have offered these to one group but I have not heard anything back that there is any interest in adding to their collection of drawings. if anyone is interested, I shall send a copy of a sheet copy made from the negative for review. They deserve preservation.

Harry Nicholls
h_k_nicholls@peoplepc.com