N&W 611 Trademarked

p51 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:22 pm

A pal of mine is a copyright attorney, and I can't wait to run this past him the next time I see him.
VMT didn't built 611 or any of the other Js, and I can't see how this is legal as N&W designed, built and ran all of them originally. So if you made a t-shirt of another specific N&W J that isn't 611, VMT owns that, too?
That's messed up.

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1087

Brother Mitchell's thread-title is very misleading.

A title like "VMT is attempting to obtain trademark registration for N&W 611" would have been much better.

From the article:

Quote:

From the Virginia Museum of Transportation: The official transportation museum for the Commonwealth of Virginia today announced the filing of its initial application with the United States Trademark and Patent Office (USPTO) (http://www.uspto.gov). If the Virginia Museum of Transportation’s application is successful and a trademark registration is awarded by the USPTO, a legal presumption is created for the Museum’s nationwide ownership of these trademarks for the for the Norfolk & Western Class J steam passenger locomotive, specifically the Class J 611, and the Museum’s exclusive right to use these trademarks on or in connection with all the registered products, services and media produced by the Museum.

filmteknik · **Posted:** Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:47 pm

That's nasty. The little guys really need to join forces, create a trade group to pool resources, and fight this infringement of their rights to those public domain terms.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:55 pm

This is what I can get to fit, thanks to the limitations of the website software/architecture:

Quote:

Va. Museum of Transportation files for trademark rights to N&W 6

Equally inaccurate. >;-)

More to the point, these trademark applications are seldom declined unless it is contested by another claimant with an equally bold right to the trademark--in this case, say, Norfolk Southern. Joe's T-Shirts of the Roanoke Valley ain't gonna cut it.

RCD · **Posted:** Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:13 am

I do some shirt and poster stuff to get funds for the F40PH Preservation Society, I always wondered what would happen if I were to take a photo of C&O 614 and make posters and shirts out of it. If you diden't build it then you shoulden't be able to trade mark it. There is a huge difference between a logo of a railroad, sports team, ex..ex.. and a locomotive thay was built over half a centrey ago.

My 2¢

filmteknik · **Posted:** Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:15 am

Doesn't many years of prior use count for something?

hytwr1 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am **Posts:** 211

For what it's worth both of our interlocking towers, likeness etc and their names are trademarked.

robertjohndavis · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am **Posts:** 2499

hytwr1 wrote:

For what it's worth both of our interlocking towers, likeness etc and their names are trademarked.

Bill,

Are they registered trademarks? Looking at your website, it doesn't seem to include any TM or circle R marks by the tower names, which is a branding no-no. If you want to maintain your trademark, regular use of the correct mark in your own materials is key.

I am not suggesting someone would challenge a rail musuem's claim to a tower name, but when you get into bigger things (like a popular 4-8-4), proper use is key to proper defense. It still is a good idea for your group.

Something to consider in your materials,

Rob

hytwr1 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am **Posts:** 211

Rob,

I noticed it when I looked at our site a few minutes ago too. Will have to get on the webmaster.

They are registered and everything else we have, merchandise etc has the R.

There is a note at the bottom of the main page about Haley Tower being trademarked. The individual tower pages just don't show it.

Bill

Rick Rowlands · **Posted:** Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:10 pm

TESS does not bring up any results for Wabash Valley, Haley Tower or Spring Hill Tower.

hytwr1 · **Joined:** Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am **Posts:** 211

Trademarked via the state of Indiana.

Bill

Dougvv · **Joined:** Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm **Posts:** 914

Hi,

As far as the general topic of traemarks, there was a big case in electronics.

About 1982, IBM designed and produced the its first PC (not THE first PC). It was based on the iapx86 and iapx88 (I still have the data book shoing these numbers). These processors were functionally identical internally - one had a 16 bit external data bus and the other had an 8 bit external bit data bus.

They became 8086 and 8088. As an aside, the predicessor was the 8080 8 bit data bus single chip microprocessor. The 8080's predicessor was the two or 3 chip 8008 microprocessor chip set.

Intel then improved the speed and funtionallity of the 8086 so that the 80286, 80386, and 80486 were born. What about the 80186? the '186 was a special variation of the 8086 for dedicated applications (what I call a bit slice - not a full 8088 with the external memory pins usually converted to a lot of Input/Output contol pins).

Intel wanted to develop the 80586 and wanted to control quality. They tried to trademark the 80586. They were denied - you can not trademark a number - they've been used for centuries.

So the Intel Pentium was born. I recall many advertisements claiming they were the Intel 80586 but there was no such beast. Now there a Celerons, Pentiums, and many named chips.

Fortunately they never tried to trademark the small TTL (74xx) and CMOS (40xx) digital gates. A 7404 by Texas Insturments will work just as well as an Intel or Motorola part by the same number.

Food For Thought.

Doug vV

Mark Trebing · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:21 pm

The Virginia Museum of Transportation wrote:

This includes the likeness of the Norfolk & Western Class J streamlined locomotive, including its shape,
color scheme and unique features.

Looking at this website: http://streamlinermemories.info/?p=325, New Haven streamlined Hudsons seem to have a remarkably similar shape. I suspect that most members of the general public would think any bullet-nosed streamlined steam engine to be the same. I think VMT is overreaching a bit.

The above website is worth look at just to see all the types of streamlined American steam.

Emmo213 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:31 pm

So do the streamlined K class engines fall under this too?

http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/selectdo ... ries=Photo

Alan Walker · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:11 pm

There was also Burger King vs. Burger King. State trademarks only apply in the state in which the trademark was registered in. If you want a trademark that is enforceable nationwide, the trademark must be registered with the US Patent and Trademark Office.