It was said on Loconotes - without reply - that they'd already scrapped 2, along with a TEBU.
I assumed the units were the two wrecked on the passenger special a few months ago, the frames were reportedly damaged.

CD

Scrapped vs. "parted out"? There is a difference in my opinion.
I'm still hoping one of the ex-LIRR high-hood C420's is preserved, somewhere as a LIRR passenger unit!

" I have seen railroads put equipment that is to be scrapped out for bid".

I am a current subscriber to email lists for three class 1 railroads, CSX, NS, and CP, to receive notification about locomotives being "retired" and available for purchase. While most of the locomotives that appear on such lists wind up being scrapped, there are instances where units survived to live and operate another day for another owner. I have two such units that will be restored and operated. I have also purchased direct, from BNSF, a locomotive that was being retired. Different companies handle surplus property different ways.

Knowing A&M, I would be very surprised if some those locomotives did not wind up with new owners, if there is any interest by groups wishing to preserve historic artifacts.

"Items belonging to a private individual are not, in fact preserved, regardless of the individual's intent".

Yessiree, that is absolutely the fact. We go out and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to seek out and acquire stuff and restore it just so Pharisees on forums like this can pontificate about them not being truly preserved. If I could be anything under the sun, I would covet non-profit status so that I can get people to give me stuff for free so I can say I saved it.

It's not about being non-profit, it's about what is done to ensure the artifact's ultimate long term survival. We're all mortal. I just lost a close friend who worked at MRSR with me for years this weekend, at an age where it was not expected. If he had items that he'd preserved, we all might be wondering "What's going to happen to old #71, he was still young, he hadn't set up a disposition plan..."

I hope you live to a ripe old age, but what happens when you die? What becomes of the artifacts that you have so lovingly restored? Are they sold at auction to the highest bidder? Oops, scrap prices are high, bad news...

Unless you create some sort of trust, group, company, non-profit or organization of some sort (as long as it works, the exact type doesn't matter for the moment) then, like it or no, the artifacts truly are not preserved in the long run. You apparently don't like that fact, but that doesn't change it.

If you have not made provisions for the long term future of the artifacts, the moment the clock stops ticking for you, it starts ticking for them. The only way to ensure the outcome is what you desire is to determine it in advance and to provide for it. At that point the item is not being preserved by "an individual" but rather by the trust or whatever it may be.

FYI:

From the beginning of their existence, A&M has been scrapping locomotives for parts. By way of of example ,there was a group of 6 motor MLW's that arrived on their own wheels and left in scrap dumpsters. Why-who knows ? A&M has also scrapped, and in some cases, sold off a number of C-420's.

Seems to me that these activities were just daily business toward the goal of keeping that particular railroad operating-particularly when the OEM is no more.

They are also running a number of contract switching operations utilizing surplus locomotives from their fleet.

They have also run an ad in a preservation forum offering surplus Alco engine and electrical parts for sale.

I suspect that the two units that are the subject here are not suitable for interchange.
Note that the 62 (named the GW Hockaday, btw) is missing both front steps.

The long and the short of it is that the disposal of surplus locomotives is just a small part of what it takes to run a railroad. Only the buffs and preservation folks attach such gravity to the process.

Just my 0.02

Dave

PS: Richard, I'm sure you are aware that the 213 was sitting out in South Dakota at last report.

Also aware that 'wm303' has an enviable record of purchasing, repairing and putting 'historically significant' units back to work.

I can't speak for the original poster, but I can assure you my comments had nothing at all to do with him specifically. They are of a far more general nature. Put simply, "If you're doing this purely as an individual, what happens when you die?"

Have we forgotten what happened with Steamtown and F. Nelson Blount? A plane crash changed the course of that museum forever.

I haven't forgotten what happened when that museum in Pemberton died: A panic fire sale which resulted in destruction of equipment. Are you really trying to argue that a stuff owned by non-profits is "preserved"? Really? Who bought and saved some pieces at the Pemberton fire sale? Private parties did -- including wm303!

No, I'm not arguing that stuff owned by non-profits is preserved. Whether or not the organization is a non-profit is irrelevant to this discussion. What is relevant is whether or not there have been long term plans made for the equipment's preservation.

As an individual, when you die, questions can arise as to the status of your possessions. What's written in the will isn't always what happens. Other laws may come into play, such a community property laws.

Yes, lots of non-profits have failed and lots of equipment has been lost. But the vast majority of equipment that has been preserved for a long duration has been done by some sort of an organization. (Doesn't have to be non-profit, recent developments notwithstanding, UPRR has done a good job of it.)

The amount of hostility here is rather amazing. The comment was made to the effect that there should be an arrangement in place that will outlive the individual. Nobody is saying that all preservation must be done by non profits. Stop reacting and start reading.

A&M has been the largest single owner of LV C420's for the past 25 years.
running them much longer than their first owner (LV) and their second owner (D&H) combined..they have owned six of them, out of a total of twelve LV C420's.
They bought them from the D&H when the D&H got rid of them around 1988.

One of the A&M six was scrapped years ago, five remain.
The one that is in imminent danger of scrapping, A&M 62, was LV 406.
and I agree that the recent photos suggest scrapping is a likely outcome.

https://sites.google.com/site/scotlawre ... ocomotives

Would love to get one to display in the LV's hometown of Sayre PA!
The Sayre Historical Society had a LV U23B donated to them, but that project fell through, and the U-boat was scrapped. :( there are no immediate plans for a locomotive for Sayre, but it would be great if they could get one:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scotty ... index.html

Scot

Gentlemen,
When you are ready to take a break from picking over carcasses which may not be ready to be picked may I suggest that you note the following:http://www.icontact-archive.com/Gp73aByODKGBgC-fWImMwAtEFGlOI_K-?w=4. While control of the company will probably be seamless (Caren Kraska, also known as Mrs McCarren, is a veteran of he same group of early Conrail employees which in addition to Reilly, produced Henry Posner III), you never know. Give it a week or two.

In many respects the man was the epitome of the of the regional railroad industry and clearly one of its best brains. Reilly received his BSE and his MS from MIT. I have a BSE Civil from Princeton and I could never do what I once saw him do - carry on a conversation while working out a problem on a slide rule - yes I said slide rule. If he decided the Alcos were a good investment he had it worked out to the penny and year and he would have right.

Reilly, You left us far too soon and we will miss you.

GME

There's not.

Everytime an Alco goes up for sale, someone says "The DL will want it."

They don't. The DL has approx. 35 Alcos.

The Lake State RY put all of their Alcos up for sale. They ended up all scrapped.

WNY&P/LA&L has more than enough Alcos. They have 2-3 they are rebuilding.

I believe the Lake State Alcos had been pretty much run into the ground before they ended up getting cut.
The pictures I've seen of the A&M units are similar, an obviously stripped and rusted unit and another with a visibly bent frame.

CD

I have been told that A&M C420's number 62 and 64, (originally LV 406 and 407) have been recently scrapped. I have no reason to doubt its true, but can anyone else confirm? I would like to get more than one source before I update the LV survivors list:

https://sites.google.com/site/scotlawre ... ocomotives

thanks,
Scot

Hi,

Slightly tangent to the topic here.

Would it be a reasonable idea if the Monon/ LV loco with most of the internals being gone be used as a static display painted in either LV or Monon colors?

If it is a rare loco (like the AT&SF/D&H/NdeM PAs) it might be reasonable idea.

Doug vV