Speaking of that, what's your opinion about case studies? I was thinking of using a fictitious one to avoid ruffling feathers, but real-world could be useful if we could be polite about it.

I've been reading this thread with great interest. It's a great idea, and I thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. There are similar tomes available that cover related subjects such as archival practice and architectural historic preservation, so there is precedent for such a work.

Based on the breadth of comments posted so far, I'm a little unclear as to what the focus of such a work would be, or if it would instead aim to be rather comprehensive.

Like a previous poster had suggested, I could see, perhaps, a two volume work. As I would envision it, volume one would be sort of, for lack of a better term, the business/administrative/historic volume. It would cover things like objectives and goals; fund raising; public, community and government relations; legalities and liability; book-keeping; historic documentation, historic interpretation, business plans, etc. etc. In keeping with the original question, my suggestion for chapter one would, as others have suggested, be an historical overview of locomotive preservation, i.e. a synopsis of what some a few others have done since the end of steam to date, with a focus on what their objectives were, how successfully those objectives were met, and what were the long-term outcomes. I think this serves as a good introduction to stimulate thought and discussion on options, what can be done, and sometimes, what can't.


Volume two would be nuts and bolts, i.e. sharing a variety of proven, successful techniques, tools, materials, etc. to accomplish the desired objective, be it stabilization, preservation, restoration, or operation. For my first chapter on this volume, I would go with something on realistically evaluating the present condition of the locomotive to be restored.

Both volumes have the potential to be....well....voluminous. I'm on the fence as to if that's a good thing or not, but as I said, the breadth of comments makes me unsure of how much focus would be desired.

Others have raised the questions of who would read it, and who would follow it to the letter. Well, I think we would read it, or at least consult it, and it would be an excellent resource for groups contemplating such an undertaking. My thinking is that perhaps it's real value is as a depository of information that prevents reinventing the wheel, and passing that information on to those that follow in our footsteps. This would especially be true if it is a living document, where improved techniques can be added, and less effective ones discarded. In any case, I don't expect to see it on the Times best seller list.

As to who would follow the practices presented, no one can know that for sure, and no one is required to follow any practices beyond what is stipulated by the FRA or other regulatory agencies and applicable laws. I think that realistically, all we can say is, "We developed these practices from our knowledge and experiences, sometimes gained the hard way. We think it would be wise for you to employ them in your project and sincerely hope you will consider doing so." The point is, such a work would make those practices available, and due diligence will have been done. For that matter -- and not to start a debate -- who is the arbiter of what is the absolute best practice or practices for a specific given situation.

In answer to the last question I saw, I like case studies, be they real or hypothetical, especially when used to illustrate discussed practices in actual use. They can really clear up the mud sometimes.

Best regards, all!

The meat would be the mechanical and physical details of a recovery. However, the well meaning but clueless recovery/restoration group could probably use some help with what to consider before the wrenches start turning. I argue that there should be a page or so of guidance to assist with the decision "should we do?" This could include advice on the relative value of the item versus the potential costs, to include the unforeseen liabilities and administrative and environmental responsibilities which come with custodianship of a locomotive or similar item. Detailed guidance would come from other sources and dealing with the issues can probably wait until the artifact is no longer in immediate jeopardy, but a check list or summary would inform what should be addressed and/or dealt with.

(This was written before I saw Steve Zarick's thoughtful comments. A volume on the administrative needs of a non-profit restoration project would have been most welcome 32 months ago when I signed on to our project and would have saved me considerable time and grief. )

Great thread Becky, and thanks to Richard for daring to ask about a certain steam fleet for stimulating the conversation about developing a volume of best practices. RR preservation is a huge field full of diverse skills and practices. I believe the outcome of an endeavor such as this would be in volumes. Given that this thread arose from the discussion reinventing steam restoration in an era of high tech precision, how about a wiki of sorts for the common appliances - air compressors, injectors, feed water heaters, dynamos, stoker engines, burners, super heater units and so on. A steam locomotive is a system of machines that run on steam. Many outfits that operate steam have the needed data on hand, but as preservationist, discovering legacy manuals and making them available to the broader community has a place in this discussion too. Obviously what I've listed here is applicable to traction preservation, diesel preservation and so on.

Based on Becky's more detailed outline of an Introduction/Chapter One - I will attempt to take a few of her initial points and try to develop them just a little further. The purpose is to see if we are anywhere close to going in a desirable direction.

The scenario is a steam locomotive in a park in a medium sized community where stories are beginning to circulate that it may be considered for scrapping in the near future. The engine has been in the same place since anyone can remember - probably the mid 1950's.
It is located at the edge of the park and across the street from an older residential neighborhood where properties are increasingly being bought by investors. These investors are frequently leveling the older homes and building new rather upscale town homes. There is no fence around the engine.

DEFINE THE SITUATION/PROBLEM

1. What is the situation or the problem that is causing these stories to circulate? Is it a problem with the engine itself? Or is it a problem with the present location of this engine? Or is it a problem with the engine and the location? What are the stories referring to? Go see the engine and its location and take pictures and rough measurements as to its width and overall length along with notes. The notes should also include the essence of the stories being circulated and who is circulating these stories if it is discernable. There is often a lot of emotion involved so it's important to capture as information as factually as possible.


PROBLEMS WITH THE ENGINE
A. If the problem is with the engine - is it a safety problem such as asbestos leaking out noticeably or possibly rusted and sharp objects protruding or maybe broken glass or unsafe ladders or walk ways. It also could be something other than these reasons. Are people climbing and playing on the engine? Did someone get injured by being around the engine? Is there a lawsuit pending or settled as a result of the engine?
B. If the problem is with the engine - and it seems to be an appearance issue it could because it is badly rusted or sorely in need of a nice paint job or removal of graffiti or something else.


PROBLEMS WITH THE LOCATION
A. If the problem is with location - is there a specific stated need for this location for something else to use this location such a new building or an extension of building or a new parking area? Who will benefit from this location being made available by the removal of the engine?
B. If the problem with the location - is it a more general objection such as the engine does not fit in with the future plans for the park? Or maybe the investors or new residents of the townhomes are objecting to the engine being right in front of them. Are there possible uses of drugs or homeless people using the engine?

Include any information you find out about these questions in your notes.

If any of this defining the problem makes sense - then we make whatever additions and corrections useful and proceed to why the engine is important and its history along determining the ownership the engine in the next step and then to determining what resources might be available to help us save the engine.

I welcome all of your comments and thoughts.

Thanks,


Arnie Johnson

Best practices - there are many and all work but not all are suitable for every situation or set of people. I think there's going to be a need for another volume to look at figuring out which set of best practices might work best depending on the many conditions that combine to create and specific situation and the group of people involved. If we want to be broad and conceptual, we can cover the big ideas.... if we want to be technical in terms of the nuts and bolts, the size and scope will be pretty incomplete or huge and unwieldy, or do neither very well.

This doesn't mean it can't be tried. I'd like to see ATRRM curate a Wiki of sorts wherein members can post their projects as case studies, with commentary on why they chose to do what they did the way they decided to do them. There could easily be links to scans of old public domain manuals - and there are a LOT of those that were written by different experts in the age of steam. Off the top of my head, I've got Forney, McShane, Sinclair, Bell and Kardes sitting on a shelf looking at me type this right now. I have volumes from Alco, Lima, Baldwin and Glover for builders perspectives, and a Few volumes from different railroads of their S&Ps. Dinosaurs like me don't mind taking a few pleasant hours to browse through these books seeking ideas, but if they were scanned and indexed by subject and specific page and topic references, it would be handier for fast responses in the field. This is only the old way of doing things.... you want to add ways we have changed due to recent technological innovation? Great - but those books haven't been written yet. We learn those things by communicating among ourselves.

Maybe what we need is for us all to form a cooperative international laboratory.......I built a discussion board for a project that was making a lot of interesting progress in discussion until the sponsoring organization decided they wanted to get the work done but didn't want to raise funds to do it, so decided to simply lower standards and eliminate deadlines instead. Real interest killer.......

Volume one, Chapter one: Don't think like a foamer.

dave

The reflex response I have to this is that 1) the folks to whom it doesn't apply probably aren't thinking that way anyway, and 2) the ones that most need to embrace this message have no idea that they're "foamers" or what's wrong with that.

There's a cynical old joke that says "if you're not a liberal by 25 you have no heart; if you're not a conservative by 45 you have no brain."

People embarking on any kind of civic preservation project--historical, artistic, zoological, etc.--must learn the reality of balancing the emotional appeal with the practical. With a zoo, it's using the draw of the giant panda and tigers to get people in and then making them care about the possums, kookaburra, and salamanders. With us, I'd say we too often abandon the human element and contribution of railroading to society, and vice versa, in favor of simply collecting rolling stock.

No disagreement here. Human context makes it relevant and a meaningful story, and all programs that seek to serve and impact communities need to start with building the story that fits. Maybe writing the story is chapter 2.

dave

More good discussion, and thank you all.

By the way, the UP steam thread made me think that somewhere in the guide should be a "this is possible, this is not possible" section. Acceptable tolerances, and why they are acceptable, could be a small but very important sidebar. (I'm thinking of the guy at 6325's first run who complained about a handrail fitting being loose, so the rail could slide through it freely, and about the inch or so of paint that was missing. Um, that would be because of the boiler expanding, and that's why the crew had the touch-up paint with them.)

Let me pose the question this way, and see what you all think. Assume that this is for Chapter One of the big encyclopedia, and you are called to evaluate the park engine rescued by the volunteers in the quick start guide. The asbestos is gone. It's in a covered, secure facility and they have a year's lease.

What will you do first?
(Yes, it's a little of a trick question, because I know successful restorations have started in several different ways, but how would each of YOU do it?)

I'd first try to determine what the projected purpose of the restoration might be - static or operating, generic or high quality replication of an earlier era (which?) and environmental and other conditions under which it will be used.

dave

Before I did more than glance at the engine, I'd find out who is IN CHARGE, and can they make decisions ??? Do any of them have any railroad experience ??? Who is going to be paying me, or am I willing to write off what I put into it ??? What will we do when that one year lease expires ???

Most mechanical problems can be fixed, provided the political and financial obstacles can be overcome. I'd check out the organization or individual I would be working for first.

Perhaps the beginner's guide needs to spell out that the group needs to pay the steam expert, including getting him there and springing for lodging. That seems obvious, but isn't to an increasing number of people. I forget which chapter wanted an expert to fly in from the West Coast at his own expense to present his slide show. They were miffed when he turned down the "opportunity." There'd be nothing wrong with an expert volunteering or giving them a huge break if it's an engine he's really fond of or a place he likes, but no group should expect free in-depth expert advice.

As to the hypothetical engine, I've never restored anything that big, but the first thing I'd do is a walk-around. Assume that the group wasn't sure whether to do a cosmetic or running restoration, and that's why you're looking.
Did anything break or get damaged in transit? Has the 4-6-0 turned into a 4-5-0 at any point? What's the general state of the object? Surface rust is not necessarily a problem, but is anything vital so badly corroded that you know right upfront it needs replaced? Can you actually stand on the cab floor, or will you need to get some support in there before you open the firebox, assuming the doors aren't rusted or welded shut? How many of the appliances are present and not broken?
If gross examination finds the patient still has all or most body parts, and nothing huge is rusted through or missing, what's the next step?

For a long while, needing a new boiler was the prime indication for cosmetic rather than running restoration. Now I'm wondering whether the drivers wouldn't be a bigger potential problem.

I really hope this comes to fruition. That said, if you want to do it as a Wiki type page, let me know and I can set you up one.

If you have an idea in mind of how else you'd like to do it, please let me know. I'm pretty sure there is a lot of this information out there, but it's scattered across many years, located in different countries or sites, mostly for sale, and in book form.

As I'm actively working on a steam restoration myself, I can tell you some of the hurdles' we've gone over, and we're just in the planning process.

A Wiki might be a good way to handle it.

As someone else said, groups tend to reinvent the wheel with each new restoration. When they start, many aren't even aware that there ARE other groups doing the same thing, or that others have already succeeded. If a lot of the participants are older, they may not be familiar with looking things up on the Net or with social media that could connect them to resources (and hint which they might not want to get involved with.)

I know the knowledge is around, if only we can gather and organize it. As more and more records find their way onto the Internet, we should be able to explain how just about every railroad handled a rebuild on a ten-wheeler at various stages of its life, or why one trust decided to re-boiler its locomotive while those handling another of the same class opted not to and how both decisions played out.

O wonder if the RyPN archives go far enough back to include an article I wrote on steam locomotive surveys in a progressive linear and logical sequence. I don't know if I still have it on a hard drive someplace.... they don't last as long as cast iron parts. It deals with a way of working this put with minimal repetition and working at cross purposes.

Neither boiler nor drivers is a problem. Funding and management is a problem.

dave