Re: UK Mainline Steam Tours BANNED

Trevor Heath · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:02 am

jcmarksbury wrote:

And does this mean crews that work to restore and maintain the locomotives don't get to enjoy the fruits of their labor (a.k.a. Get to run or fire)?

On the main lines yes......one basically hands the loco over to the TOC with an owners representative on board "observing".

Same rules apply here in New Zealand too except the TOC is the only TOC (KiwiRail).

However, a main line operating ticket in the UK is for seven years. Whereas a short line ticket is for ten years. During that later three year period (and sometimes during quiet periods in the first seven years) the locos will operate on the preserved short lines where owners and their restoration crews can have a more hands on experience.

TH

PaulWWoodring · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:42 am

As a former engineer, I think it's far more important for the engineer of an excursion steam locomotive to be intimately familiar with the machine, than with the territory. A pilot engineer (often a Road Foreman over here) sitting behind the steam-qualified engineer is enough to ensure the safe operation of the train. How do you think engineers get qualified on new territory anyway? That way. The guys operating privately owned locos, like NKP 765, have to be fully qualified on the rules for whatever railroad they are operating over, and also have to pass the physical exam for remaining federally qualified. I have absolutely no problem with someone like Rich Melvin operating the Berk over Horseshoe Curve with a live passenger train (actually going down the curve - or any significant grade - is much more demanding). It certainly would be preferable to an extra board NS engineer who has been taught to operate for fuel economy, and depend on dynamic brakes running the engine. As long as whoever is at the throttle knows the grades and any upcoming train message changes, no problem. If rank amateurs who didn't speak the language could safely operate mainline steam passenger trains in Poland all those years without a disaster (which I felt queasy about doing), then a well-trained part-time steam locomotive engineer under supervision can safely do the same thing here.

isaksenj · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:18 pm

From the UK Rail Accident Investigation Branch:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dang ... cation=ufi

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3011

Has anyone read anything explaining why this action was taken? While I'm not familiar with UK rules in general, pretty sure disabling a safety device like this is a rather severe breach of protocol no matter what rule book you're reading.

Quote:

The RAIB has found evidence that the driver of 1Z67 did not bring the train to a stand and contact the signaller after experiencing this brake application. Evidence shows that the driver and fireman instead took an action which cancelled the effect of the AWS braking demand after a short period and a reduction in train speed of only around 8 mph. The action taken also had the effect of making subsequent AWS or TPWS brake demands ineffective.

70000 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:20 am

Trevor Heath wrote:

70000,

It looks like the GB8 tour is going to survive but with multiple changes in the locomotives and some route changes.

Is that how you read it?

There are folks travelling over from New Zealand to ride on this train.

Thanks,

TH

As an update to this, it appears DBS are likely to be involved in the first couple of days of the tour as one train path has been published (although it says a diesel on the document, it is suggested that this could be for BR 4-6-2 "Britannia"). More path details are expected to appear later this week.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U ... 8/advanced

It has then been suggested that the remainder of the Tour will be operated by DRS using diesel traction.

Frisco1522 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:28 am

A good pilot engineer is your best friend and can make you look like you know the division. Out of all that I had on 1522, I only encountered one who was a dud. But it was during daylight hours, well signaled and the grades and dips were apparent.
I ran the engine so many times eastbound out of Newburg,MO that I felt like I knew the division. Plus, that was Dad's old division.
Sometimes you just need a helping hand.

PaulWWoodring · **Posted:** Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:30 pm

It was pointed out to me by an "old head" or two when I was in engineer training, that over a certain part of the sub I was learning (RF&P), you could put a child in your lap on the right train (meaning well put together loads and empties-wise) and have them run it for about 15 miles on clear signals, and it would go well, just throttle modulating (up two notches, then down one, etc.). Pretty much from the Ft. A. P. Hill tank ramp at the Stonewall Jackson house to the "Pole Cat" intermediate signal, which is mostly a mildly undulating profile. Running a train: The trick is not making it go, any fool can do that, it's bringing it to a stop in one piece in the right place (like on the near side of the stop signal). Like one guy training me said as we came up to an absolute stop signal, "Everything on this side of the signal belongs to me, everything on the other side belongs to the BRCF (Brotherhood's Relief and Compensation Fund - job insurance)".

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:51 am

Update from the Facebook page of Steam Railway Magazine (U.K.):

Quote:

West Coast Railway Company currently remains barred from operating steam and diesel charters on the main line, Network Rail confirmed today.

NR’s head of media relations, Kevin Groves, told Steam Railway on April 30: “The suspension remains in place and won’t be lifted this week.

“We had a very positive and productive meeting on Friday, and WCR has provided us with further evidence – but while some of the seven points raised in the suspension letter have been addressed and closed, half remain open with some significant work yet to be done.”

70000 · **Posted:** Fri May 01, 2015 12:06 am

The GB8 tour mentioned in this thread did manage steam haulage for the first two days (although the second day had a diesel pilot) but after that it has been diesel hauled with several changes to the route.
Latest indications are that the special train will not be working north of Edinburgh (arrive Friday pm), with the remaining passengers covering the north of Scotland by normal service trains before the special is used - diesel hauled again - to return to London.

The fall-out from this will go on for rather a long time, I would imagine, particularly when the tour cost something like $2900 US to tavel on.

70000 · **Posted:** Fri May 08, 2015 12:00 am

Have seen various comments that the Network Rail restriction on West Coast was lifted with effect from 00.01 hrs today, Friday 8th May. Have been unable to confirm this as yet, as most people seem to be more concerned with the results from yesterdays UK Elections at the moment!
Will post the relevant link to any press releases/statements as and when I can find them

robertjohndavis · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am **Posts:** 2499

70000 wrote:

Have seen various comments that the Network Rail restriction on West Coast was lifted with effect from 00.01 hrs today, Friday 8th May. Have been unable to confirm this as yet, as most people seem to be more concerned with the results from yesterdays UK Elections at the moment!
Will post the relevant link to any press releases/statements as and when I can find them

I hope that's correct! The UK mainline steam programme is quite special. I admit, from my limited exposure, I am smitten. A Black Five and a rake of MKI's gets me going as much as any American steam.

Rob

70000 · **Posted:** Fri May 08, 2015 2:05 am

robertjohndavis wrote:

70000 wrote:

Have seen various comments that the Network Rail restriction on West Coast was lifted with effect from 00.01 hrs today, Friday 8th May. Have been unable to confirm this as yet, as most people seem to be more concerned with the results from yesterdays UK Elections at the moment!
Will post the relevant link to any press releases/statements as and when I can find them

I hope that's correct! The UK mainline steam programme is quite special. I admit, from my limited exposure, I am smitten. A Black Five and a rake of MKI's gets me going as much as steam.

Rob

Appears to be correct, as this movement of locos from Grosmont (North Yorkshire Moors Railway) to Fort William in Scotland for the "Jacobite" steam workings (think Harry Potter...) has appeared for today - operated by West Coast.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U ... 8/advanced

And the Network Rail press release has now appeared as well.......

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk ... ion-notice

Not the end of the story though, as the Office of Rail & Road (ORR) investigation is still continuing.

Overmod · **Joined:** Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm **Posts:** 2492

I went back over this thread and can't see that anyone ever provided the actual letter that Network Rail sent WCR imposing the suspension. There are a number of interesting points in it. The direct download to the PDF is here:

http://cdn.prgloo.com/media/download/b7 ... 581943c40e

Note in particular the clause at the end that specifically mentions the tours can go on using another operator.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Fri May 08, 2015 9:17 am

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2015/05/ ... -back.html

Quote:

A BAN imposed on heritage operator West Coast Railways has been lifted by Network Rail, after West Coast restructured its business.

The suspension of West Coast's licence on 1 April had followed a SPAD near Swindon on 8 March, when a steam special operated by WCR overran signals and came close to colliding with a First Great Western HST.

The incident ended without injury or damage, but safety inspectors from the ORR then launched an investigation into whether there had been a breach of health and safety law.

The outcome of that investigation is not yet known, but Network Rail said it was now satisfied that WCR had improved its safety management.

Apart from charter specials, WCR is the operator of the scheduled steam services between Fort William and Mallaig, and is also poised to run steam trains on more Scottish lines in partnership with the operators of the new ScotRail franchise, which was won by Abellio and started on 1 April.

Network Rail freight director Paul McMahon told WCR chairman David Smith that as West Coast had "now satisfactorily addressed all of the actions we set out in our Suspension Notice of 1 April we will lift the suspension of your Track Access Contracts".

He continued: "We welcome the commitment West Coast Railways has made to improving safety management; the changes to your Safety Management System and the three new roles (director/general manager, head of safety and non-executive director) being introduced to strengthen safety leadership and corporate governance.

"We note your appointment before services recommence of your new non-executive director and Alex McGregor of Lloyds Register as interim head of safety pending the permanent
appointment and for the ongoing engagement of First Class Partnerships to ensure that changes to the SMS are implemented effectively.

"We recognise and welcome that you intend to put in place a phased return of services, to allow you and your most experienced staff to implement your new procedures before use with a wider range of services."

70000 · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 2:46 pm

Just to conclude this topic, as things have started to get back to normal over here (though not totally yet...), you might like to see this You Tube film of two steam hauled specials following each other on the gradient up to Shap Summit in north-west England today, Saturday 30.May.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=221&v=jiPaJFIbqwc

My guess is the person filming didn't expect the second train to be held up by the slow proress of the first one - Enjoy!