What are you caboose and work train car restorers using these days for wood, when fabricating new wood sash for cabooses ?

On passenger cars, RMNE has used mahogany, which was the original material in 99% of cars-- it holds paint or varnish well, is dimensionally stable and is reasonably durable.

That does seem like overkill on caboose windows, which will be painted on all sides. Anyone have long-term experience with the best wood for this application?

Thanks,

Howard P.

Douglas fir is a good option. It is a bit pricey, but it remains straight and true, and stands up to the weather well.

Howard,

If I remember correct, Osgood-Bradley / Pullman (Worcester Mass) used mahogany on the windows of the NE-5 cabooses for the New Haven. As we need to make a new set of windows for the C-618 I think I have the drawings on hand, I will double check tonight.

Which caboose is next in line at the Naugy?

Regards,
Rich C.
Ct Eastern RR Museum
Willimantic, Ct

Cherry was a fairly common wood for streetcar doors and sash.

Gord

Car in question is New Haven NE-6 class C-694, built 1947 by International at Kenton, Ohio, and later used on Pittsburg & Shawmut in Pa. (1966-1994). The old sash appear to date from the P&S era.

Car inside Thomaston Shop, October 2014:



Howard P.

We had two types made for our WAB caboose 2824 at the Monticello Ry. Museum. First series was made of mahogany, the remainder were made from Spanish Cedar. I believe both will stand up well to the weather.


James Holzmeier

http://www.facebook.com/groups/WabashCaboose

I had the pleasure of making new sashes (24 of them!) for CB&Q Class NE-10 caboose no. 13500, the first all steel caboose on the CB&Q. By the time that the Minnesota Transportation Museum acquired the caboose there was nothing left of the original wooden windows. I researched old photos to determine the dimensions of the window parts and used clear white pine. I assumed that the sashes were constructed on the lines of normal wooden windows as far as the joinery was concerned. Douglas fir or hemlock would have worked as well. We installed tempered laminated glass in the sashes.

James, that's really some first rate work on that WAB caboose. And your project organization/timeline/worksheet was quite impressive.

Howard P.

For painted window sashes, we've used Poplar. It is fairly weather resistant, dimensionally stable, and has minimal to no graining.
Herb Sakalaucks
Colfax Railroad Museum

I'd be rather leery of using pine... while some species of pine are rather rot resistant (like Northern White Pine, which is commercially extinct) Most of the clear pine now seems to be Ponderosa Pine from the west coast. I took some Ponderosa Pine rippings home to use as tomato stakes years ago; they rotted away in a year. Admittedly, that was ground contact, but the environment between the bottom of the sash and the window sill on a car that sits out in the rain isn't much better. Now that the Gov't has banned all the useful wood preservatives, you can't do much to stop the rot.

While Doug Fir and cedar are more rot resistant, to me, the pines, cedars and firs are too soft for working items like sash; you can mark them with your thumbnail. They'll get all chewed up in no time.

I'll second Herb's comments about poplar, we used to use a lot of it for sash, glass guards, and trim when I worked at the transit authority years ago, and it held up pretty well. It's also easy to work, without pronounced grain.

As far as I'm concerned, Mahogany (not Lauan) is still the gold standard. For the amount of work that goes into building, glazing, and fitting sash, why cheap out on the material?

Salvage good wood if possible. New growth softwood doesn't last like the older stuff. Most of the poplar I've fond in the Southeast recently is no better than balsa for longevity, we have houses a few years old with the painted poplar window trim rotting off.

dave

We had two complete locomotive (1 & 3) cabs built out of Alder when I was at the Roaring Camp and Big Trees in the 90's. I've seen both recently and are in great shape for 20 year old wood cabs. Alder runs from cream to light red, tight grain, dimensionally stable, rot resistant if finished properly and easily sourced from Sustainable Forestry Initiative suppliers.

Thank you, Howard! The schedule was, ahem, quite...aggressive. Tried to stick with it but alas, bad weather intervened.


Best,


James Holzmeier
www.facebook.com/groups/WabashCaboose

Howard,

Confirmed it last night, the wooden window sashes built by Pullman Co, Worcester, Ma for the NY,NH&H NE-5 Cabooses in the 40's are marked as Mahogany on the prints. Hope this helps.

Rich C.

At the IRM we try and use what was original. Most of our old equipment being from the Midwest
we found a lot of White Oak and some Mahogany used for older steam engine windows as well as cabooses. Clear old growth Southern Pine and Poplar probably in that order. Even if the car came from a railroad it was probably on it's 2nd or 3rd set of windows so unless you can find builders prints that specify a wood species it's really anyone’s guess.
That said we use a lot of White Oak or Poplar. Up scale cars like Pullman's originally had Honduran Mahogany, now an endangered species. If you use Mahogany ask the hardwood supplier what he has close to Honduran, and don't use it if the grain is wavy.
If the car has any outside service we pre-treat the window before glazing with a very thin home brew preservative of boiled linseed oil, white primer, and mineral spirits. Let it dry for a week then prime, paint and glaze.
Another trick is to put two brass tacks on the bottom of the sash where it rests on the sill. Lifting it up off the sill a little keeps the water from wicking under and allows it to dry faster.
If the car is being stored outside I try to not put wood windows in yet. Unlike a house with eves, rail cars, even with good drip caps at the roof line, offer no protection from dripping and blowing rain and snow. No matter what you do if outside there going to rot.
Our shop is equipped with machine tools from the Milwaukee Electric Cold Springs Shops. To replace bad street car windows they had a full time sash staff working continuously.