I've wondered how NS, UP, BNSF, etc. handle steam excursions with union rules. White Pass is operated with UTU employees and is probably the only (to my knowledge) railroad operating regular steam excursions with union employees. I understand union contracts vary greatly from one railroad to the next, but have you had an experience, one way or the other, in terms of union contracts and steam operations?

Most tourist lines these days are exempt from railroad retirement. My understanding is an individual with railroad retirement cannot draw his retirement if he is employed by a railroad that offers the same. Am I correct or missing something?

Aren't UP excursions run by union employees from the steam crew plus whatever pilot may be needed for the particular route? I'm only guessing but I would suppose the other ones would be treated like any foreign train operating on their railroad on trackage rights with a pilot. Maybe they also assign a conductor?

John wrote;

"My understanding is an individual with railroad retirement cannot draw his retirement if he is employed by a railroad that offers the same."

Correct, once you apply for your RR retirement payments you cannot work for another RR that is covered by railroad retirement benefits. Those were the rules back in the 90's when my father retired after 49 years with NYCRR/PC/CONRAIL.

After 49 years on the RR my Dad had very little interest in working "on the RR" again.

Maybe the rules have changed, but I don't believe they have.

Cheers, KevinK.

KevinK is correct....Quoting the Railroad Retirement Board website, "A railroad retirement annuity is not payable for any month in which you work for a railroad or a railroad labor organization". http://www.rrb.gov/forms/PandS/Misc/g77a.asp

Jim Tatum

But if you do work, does it add to your payment credits from RR retirement later?

I believe the Strasburg today is non union, but is covered by RR retirement. It was in 1986.

Unions and RR retirement are separate things. RR retirement is administered by the government.

.

That can be good and bad for career railroaders who want to work tourist gigs when they reach retirement age.

No, once a railroader's annuity begins, the only increases are by COLA adjustments.



Specifically, the United States Railroad Retirement Board is an independent agency of the Executive Branch of the Federal Government. It is headquartered in Chicago.

Jim Tatum

NS excursions operate with a union conductor and union engineer. The locomotives are operated by a contractor hired by the railroad. The engineer generally acts as a pilot. Depending on the locomotive involved, a diesel helper may be required and may or may not be crewed (some NS contract locomotives have MU capability).

You are correct that an individual with railroad retirement loses their ability to draw RR if they are employed by a railroad later on. My understanding is that that means any railroad, regardless of whether or not they offer RR. When I was at TVRM, we had a volunteer who volunteered three days a week and lived in the Knoxville area. Years ago, he had worked for the DL&W long enough to collect Railroad Retirement. He told us that if he were to be a compensated employee for any railroad, he would lose his Railroad Retirement.

I know several retired railroaders, mostly civil engineers, who work as consultants to short line railroads. One was a Conrail former division engineer, another was a former track supervisor. I also knew a wreckmaster who did the same thing. I doubt they would jeopardize their retirement benefits, so it must be legitimate for them to work as consultants.

You just cannot collect RRB benefits during any month where you perform any compensated railroad service.
Keith

Re: Unions.

It has been my experience that the craft unions on most railroads don't care too much,
as long as the basic agreements are followed and all parties are on board with everything.

I know of a steam program where employees (with the exception of the manager) were
members of the following unions:

American Railway Supervisors Association (Foremen)
Intl. Association of Machinists
Intl. Brotherhood of Electrical workers
Intl. Association of Boilermakers, Blacksmiths and Iron Ship Builders (boilermakers)
Sheetmetal Workers Union (pipefitters, tinsmiths, etc) <now part of the UTU>
Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen
United Transportation Union.

Some of the employees were "doubleheading," meaning that, for example, a boilermaker promoted to foreman would belong to both the boilermakers and the ARSA if he wanted to.

On trips, there was always a pilot engineer and conductor somewhere on the train. Usually they took turns rifing the engine; some didn't want to be anywhere near the engine (too loud, too hot, too cold, too rough, etc). They were never forced to ride the engine, but never prevented from riding up there if they wanted to.

All the unions were happy, all the people were happy (except for few grouches) and a good, professional show was put on.