N&W 611 Restoration Thread

Andy J · **Joined:** Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:36 am **Posts:** 63

Anyone have any idea about the results of the testing done by the NS dynamometer car ( NS32 ) over the weekend?

gmray · **Joined:** Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am **Posts:** 382

Those of us who were in the Research Car were asked not to post anything on FB. Only a single horsepower rating was calculated on Saturday and it validated that the data being collected was in agreement with the 1945 tests of the 604.

Inquiring minds will just have to wait for the NS Research Engineers to finish crunching the numbers and publish their results.

We all did agree that the heavy consist (almost 1,500 tons plus passengers and supplies) and the 40 mph speed limit kept the 611 from exhibiting her maximum horsepower. 700 - 800 tons and a 45 mph speed limit would be much better.

I am very thankful for the opportunity to ride with them and observe the data being collected.

G. Mark

Andy J · **Joined:** Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:36 am **Posts:** 63

Jeff Lisowski wrote:

Andy J wrote:

Anyone have any idea about the results of the testing done by the NS dynamometer car ( NS32 ) over the weekend?

I read on FB somewhere that 611 generated 4400 HP at 26 mph.

I'm curious as to what the HP rating was at 40 mph where she is supposed to generate her peak HP.

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... in-consist

gmray wrote:

Those of us who were in the Research Car were asked not to post anything on FB. Only a single horsepower rating was calculated on Saturday and it validated that the data being collected was in agreement with the 1945 tests of the 604.

Inquiring minds will just have to wait for the NS Research Engineers to finish crunching the numbers and publish their results.

We all did agree that the heavy consist (almost 1,500 tons plus passengers and supplies) and the 40 mph speed limit kept the 611 from exhibiting her maximum horsepower. 700 - 800 tons and a 45 mph speed limit would be much better.

I am very thankful for the opportunity to ride with them and observe the data being collected.

G. Mark

Very good! Thanks for the information!

koasterkidd · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:21 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8DnPl-EkYo

For anyone who wants to check it out, here's my coverage for this past weekend's excursions.

Now I want to say, this engine is absolutely incredible. For my first time seeing her, I was blown away at how she handled the 21 car train. With a beautiful whistle and stack talk that shook both air and the ground around her, she won me over. Her crews were absolutely friendly and courteous in every way, and the amount of professionalism this group has shown is top notch. In my honest opinion, the Virginia Museum of Transportation is setting a fine example of how an organization should be represented as... and that's within their first year back in excursion service! I truly want to thank all who made this possible, from the donations of both money and manpower to the gracious planners and executives. Without all of you, this wouldn't have been possible, and I thank you!

whodom · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:07 pm

gmray wrote:

Those of us who were in the Research Car were asked not to post anything on FB. Only a single horsepower rating was calculated on Saturday and it validated that the data being collected was in agreement with the 1945 tests of the 604.

Inquiring minds will just have to wait for the NS Research Engineers to finish crunching the numbers and publish their results.

We all did agree that the heavy consist (almost 1,500 tons plus passengers and supplies) and the 40 mph speed limit kept the 611 from exhibiting her maximum horsepower. 700 - 800 tons and a 45 mph speed limit would be much better.

I am very thankful for the opportunity to ride with them and observe the data being collected.

G. Mark

I'll look forward to more details on this.

One note- the tonnage wouldn't be a detriment to developing maximum horsepower as long as speed could be maintained, but no doubt even 611 would have trouble maintaining 45 MPH with that consist on a significant grade, so I'm guessing that's why you'd have preferred less tonnage for a maximum horsepower run.

mdogg · **Joined:** Mon May 04, 2015 12:06 pm **Posts:** 15

koasterkidd wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8DnPl-EkYo

For anyone who wants to check it out, here's my coverage for this past weekend's excursions.

Now I want to say, this engine is absolutely incredible. For my first time seeing her, I was blown away at how she handled the 21 car train. With a beautiful whistle and stack talk that shook both air and the ground around her, she won me over. Her crews were absolutely friendly and courteous in every way, and the amount of professionalism this group has shown is top notch. In my honest opinion, the Virginia Museum of Transportation is setting a fine example of how an organization should be represented as... and that's within their first year back in excursion service! I truly want to thank all who made this possible, from the donations of both money and manpower to the gracious planners and executives. Without all of you, this wouldn't have been possible, and I thank you!

Nice. Although, 765 on the New River Gorge trips with 32+ passenger cars behind her was the best, IMHO. #2 would be 614 at 79 mph Hoboken- Port Jervis with 25+ cars.

Mr.Pullman · **Posted:** Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:08 pm

mdogg

While you have pointed out examples of steam powered trains with more cars, let's talk about track conditions. This past weekend the 611 was also dealing with less than desirable weather as well as a track related 25 mph slow order at the base of Christiansburg grade preventing a run on the mountain at the correct speed. That's before considering the 1.35 grade in both directions out of Roanoke with s curves of 6 and 7 degree curves back to back. All of this together provided a challenge to the 611.

Dave · **Posted:** Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:41 pm

That was the challenge she was built to handle. Sorry I was working and couldn't see it in person.

mdogg · **Joined:** Mon May 04, 2015 12:06 pm **Posts:** 15

Mr.Pullman wrote:

mdogg

While you have pointed out examples of steam powered trains with more cars, let's talk about track conditions. This past weekend the 611 was also dealing with less than desirable weather as well as a track related 25 mph slow order at the base of Christiansburg grade preventing a run on the mountain at the correct speed. That's before considering the 1.35 grade in both directions out of Roanoke with s curves of 6 and 7 degree curves back to back. All of this together provided a challenge to the 611.

Agree, it was a challenge to 611, she sounded great, and probably could have pulled even more tonnage. A fantastic engine.

The New River Gorge trips in the 80s and 90s were around I think 0.6% ruling grade, and lots of curvature, with some trips having to deal with wet rail, leaves, etc. Incredible exhaust sounds! On the way back, I'll never forget the mile posts going by at about 50 seconds where permissible.

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:13 am

mdogg wrote:

The New River Gorge trips in the 80s and 90s were around I think 0.6% ruling grade, and lots of curvature, with some trips having to deal with wet rail, leaves, etc. Incredible exhaust sounds! On the way back, I'll never forget the mile posts going by at about 50 seconds where permissible.

I've said this before, and it seems time to bring it back--

Like "MDogg," I still fondly recall my first mainline trip behind steam, which was in 1977 with the Chessie Steam Special and, at the time, Ross Rowland's ex-Reading T-1, 2101. As noted, wonderful exhaust sounds, beautiful countryside, lots of curves and fast running.

One of the things that was also impressive was how "on top" the operating people must have been. Eastbound, we were running at track speed, and met a westbound freight in a tremendous explosion of sound and a blur of steel just beyond the open windows of our ex-CNJ coach. Shortly after this, the air came on, and speed dropped rapidly. There followed a lot of clanging and banging that got louder and louder as we approached and then passed over a crossover, placing us on the "left" iron.

As soon as we had the whole train over, Ross Rowland opened up the 4-8-4, and we accelerated, passing an eastbound freight on the track we had just been on. We ran for a while left hand, and then repeated the crossover experience, going back to right hand running. A few minutes later, we got a repeat performance of another westbound freight, again racing past us on the track we had recently vacated.

The return trip was even more spectacular in my opinion. Ross Rowland had "outlawed" by then, and we had a C&O engineer returning us to Huntington. We were approaching Mount Carbon, which is near the former Virginian Railway line that comes out of the tunnel through the mountain on the south side of the Kanawha and then crosses the river to Deepwater and an interchange with what used to be New York Central, and before that the Kanawha & Michigan. At this time we were in deep twilight. The sky was a deep, dark indigo, the hills across the river were black silhouettes, and the Kanawha was also deep indigo, reflecting the sky.

We were running at track speed, and approaching a signal that was displaying an approach aspect. Our C&O man didn't slow down at all, but came up on it at full speed. I have to say I was relieved to see the signal suddenly flash to "proceed" or "clear" right in front of the pilot. Of course, it went to "stop" right away, and I can still see in my mind the smoke swirling in the lights.

We heeled into one curve, then another, and then were on a long curve to the right following the river. Visibility could be measured in miles at this point.

Ahead was another block signal displaying "approach." Beyond was another block displaying "stop." Just beyond the "stop" signal were two moving red lights--the markers on a caboose. We were right behind another train.

We kept getting closer and closer to that "approach" block with no slackening of speed. We were very close.

And then the two moving lights passed another signal at "stop." The first "stop" signal changed to "approach," and the signal we were almost on top of changed from "approach" to "clear," again right in front of the locomotive. This went on for miles. Again, it was an exhibition of top notch railroading--and a glimpse of what it must have been like on the Hudson, when the 20th Century and other trains on the NYC ran in multiple sections, spaced by minimal block intervals the the skill of engine crews.

I'll admit to being spoiled, I've been hooked on mainline steam ever since!

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:19 am

Back to 611, and a photo from the site "Railroad Glory Days" by Ron Flanary:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

For those who have trouble with Facebook:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... 2713_o.jpg

And Ron's text with the photo:

Quote:

Summer of ‘57

I’m comfortably ensconced in a deluxe seat in Southern stainless steel streamlined coach 903, “Pulaski.” It’s July 5, 1957, and my father, mother and sister are en route to Philadelphia, where my uncle and aunt will meet us for a month-long vacation in the City of Brotherly Love. Not quite ten years old, this summer will be incredibly special. I press my nose against the glass to see where we might be, not knowing this trip will introduce me to the hoagie sandwich; the Valley Forge battlefield; Atlantic City; the incredible wonders of Manhattan; B&O blue and gray F-units with brass Capitol dome logos on their noses, RDC cars and the passenger trains of the Royal Blue Line; Baldwin 4-10-2 three cylinder compound demonstrator No. 60000 at the Franklin Institute, and the adrenalin rush of watching Pennsy GG1s run full out by the suburban passenger shelter at Folcroft, Pennsylvania. We’ll be carried home on train 41, the “Pelican,” and arrive behind N&W class J 604. And as long as I have memory, I’ll relish standing under the umbrella shed at Bristol after we arrive that morning, listening to her cross compound air pumps, smelling the aroma of steam and valve oil, and taking in the enormity of the finest steam passenger locomotive ever built---anywhere. What a summer this will be!

But now, we’re stopped at some unknown rural location. I see no community, and no depot. The friendly conductor tells me this is Vicker, Virginia, and as it is with all Bristol-Monroe through passenger trains, the engine is taking coal to get us to Monroe, VA, where Southern E-units will take over for the last leg to Washington. This is train 46, the Memphis-New York “Tennessean,” one of six (three each way) daily inter-road Southern Railway passenger trains handled by the N&W between Bristol, VA and Monroe, just north of Lynchburg.

The brakes release, and imperceptibly we get underway again. Even nine cars back you can hear the bark of the big class J up front---611. Slowly the sun of the day is gone and the evening turns overcast---then dark---and then the Heavens open up and the rain falls—in buckets. The 611 isn’t fazed. Her veteran Radford Division engineer clamps down tighter on his Harvester-brand cigar, widens on her and pulls the reverser back toward center just a bit. As we twist and turn on the 1.3 percent grade toward Christiansburg, we pick up speed---quickly. Hanging on the 611’s head pin are three old Pennsy express boxes, two baggage cars of storage mail, the RPO, a baggage-dorm/coach, four coaches, a Southern diner, and the Memphis-New York 14 roomette, 4 double bedroom Pullman.

The rain intensifies as the J’s booming baritone Hancock chime whistle clears the grade crossing below the golf course below Christiansburg. You can hear the sharp crack of the engine’s exhaust echo off the hills and hollows through the coach window. I can only imagine what it’s like to be there in the cab at this moment. We’re still 15 minutes late owing to a 45-minute late arrival off the Southern at Bristol, but this marvelous 5200 horsepower marvel of Virginia ingenuity and craftsmanship has shaved 30 minutes en route---and the engine crew apparently still believes it can get to Roanoke on time. Don’t bet against ‘em.

In five more months, the Js will be replaced on the Bristol trains by Southern diesels running through. And a few months after that, leased RF&P and ACL E-units--available during the summer lull in the East Coast passenger trade to Florida--will replace the Js on the Cincinnati-Norfolk trains. Things are changing quickly, and this will never be happen again in my lifetime. Or…will it?

Ron Flanary

NOTE: The image was taken on July 5, 2015, with some details altered using Photoshop to come closer to the look and feel of July 5, 1957. The story is all true, except for some minor details I can’t recall (the number of the coach we were riding, and the actual number of the J on eastbound number 46 that day).

etalcos · **Posted:** Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:36 am

So, while we patiently and eagerly await Mr. Smith and Mr. Ray to finish playing with 611's numbers, does anyone have actual numbers for 614??? Or perhaps a Reading 2100 series...

...and while we're at it when will these measurements be taken on the other 21st Century Steam participants? I'm guessing if its important enough to measure for one it would be important for all?

ETA

j32885 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:56 pm

Question: Has 611 Been "Winterize/Put To Bed" I.E. Drained Of Water & Other Fluids which could freeze during the Upcoming Fall & Winter Seasons?

I wanted to ask of this after seeing this thread about NKP 759:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30001

Of course this happened years ago with 759. I didn't IF the VMT J Crew had done any Off-Season work to 611, before the colder weather came.

Gary Gray · **Posted:** Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:12 pm

j32885 wrote:

Question: Has 611 Been "Winterize/Put To Bed" I.E. Drained Of Water & Other Fluids which could freeze during the Upcoming Fall & Winter Seasons?

I wanted to ask of this after seeing this thread about NKP 759:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30001

Of course this happened years ago with 759. I didn't IF the VMT J Crew had done any Off-Season work to 611, before the colder weather came.

Done and engine parked under cover

j32885 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:32 pm

Thanks Gary Gray! ^_^

I just haven't heard any NEW from coming from either VMT or The J Crew.

Looking Forward To 2016!