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 Post subject: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:07 pm
Posts: 40
Location: Baltimore, MD
I was perusing Facebook today and I came across the B&O Museum's profile pic. This image, with the latest manifestation of commercial railroad-themed shlockery, struck me in that I would have thought it beneath the dignity of the Museum.
I am fully aware museums need to attract visitors and thus revenue, but at what price? Turning a respected institution with a unmatched historical collection into an amusement park? Perhaps in the pursuit of cash flow, the purpose of a museum should be remembered; I can't see much if any educational value to "Chuggington," aside from the usual "play well together" content. Important, to be sure, but perhaps best left for the home, schools and church.


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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
I'm what is generally called a rivet counter, and I would agree on your point if the locomotives in the collection were being painted with happy faces. In this case, I think bringing in enthused children with parents bearing wallets is the point. Museums tend to not live solely by endowments!

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 Post subject: And then there's
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
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Location: S.F. Bay Area
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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
James,

While I can understand where your concern is coming from, I don't see this as bad. The B&O museum modified its logo to promote an upcoming event. The event brings people and families into the museum, who pay admission, spend money in the gift shop, etc. Those families are more likely to come back, perhaps to see the William Mason run. The historic exhibits are not altered with smiley faces. It's a special event.

Lots of reputable non-rail museums do special events to bring in visitors (MSI Chicago, the Field Museum, the Met, the Smithsonian, etc.) and they have plenty of dignity left. I think the B&O museum still has plenty of dignity left. After all, it's just a logo.

What has more dignity, having special programing, or continuing to do the same old thing, over and over, face declining visitorship, donations and being forced to eventually shutter the doors and auction of the collection?

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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:07 pm
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Location: Baltimore, MD
I don't get it, Robert. The logos for Orange Empire Railway Museum are fine; I suppose what I object to is such blatant commercialism. And that Chuggington and Thomas and all their ilk dilute much of the meaning of railroad museums as depositories of America's industrial, technological, transportation and social histories and instead become a forum for cutsie messages.

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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
historian1960 wrote:
I don't get it, Robert. The logos for Orange Empire Railway Museum are fine; I suppose what I object to is such blatant commercialism. And that Chuggington and Thomas and all their ilk dilute much of the meaning of railroad museums as depositories of America's industrial, technological, transportation and social histories and instead become a forum for cutsie messages.


They bring in revenue and increase the likelihood that families return for the more "serious" events. Plus, many of us, as children, first became interested in railroad history through children's media. For example, the Little Golden Book Tootle was a favorite of mine. I would have loved if a local museum hosted a "Tootle Day" for me to have visited.

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 Post subject: Thomasification
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:58 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
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It's a great logo for business. The font invokes "Thomas and Friends" (who they do host there) and has a kid-and-parent friendly amusement park flair to it. As opposed to most of us, who have a pastiche of traditional railroad logos which don't connect to the public at all and are often hokey. Present company excepted, of course.

The common theme is the Thomasification of our industry, which I think is what OP is complaining about.

Myself, I am torn: because without revenue and public engagement, you are dead.

One of the most frustrating things about brochure design is you only have the top 1-1/2" of your brochure peeking over the card rack, and that is precious and needs to GRAB people out of the noise of all other brochures trying to do the same. There's strong internal pressure to put your LOGO there, and if your logo sucks for that, your brochure won't perform.


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 Post subject: Re: Thomasification
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:03 pm 

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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
robertmacdowell wrote:

Myself, I am torn: because without revenue and public engagement, you are dead.


Excellent point.

I think the regular non-rail museums have done a good job of public engagement, with special events that appeal to children, and have kept their identity.

Those museums which excel at public engagement, have the income and donor support typically to do the "serious" work.

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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am
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Location: Dallas ,Texas. USA
Its a tough world and its going to get exponentially tougher every year from now on.

I say paint everything: Chuggington carnival colors, "Barney" purple, or "Thomas" Blue, do whatever you have to do, to keep the doors open so we can all protect the information.

Donate your time, work on your favorite collections to save the paper, because the equipment is a goner!

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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:53 am 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
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Location: Bucks County, PA
I'd imagine the B&O will put their normal logo back up on their website/Facebook, etc once the weekend is over...so after the weekend is over - then the logo change is not really a big deal, is it?

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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:14 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
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Location: Amherst, OH
It's a different world now. Museums used to be fine when people wanted to come back and reminisce about the olden days but the amount of people that can remember steam being used everyday is slowly but surly dropping. Museums and tourist railways need to be "entertainment venues" if they want to continue.


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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:30 am 

Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:33 am
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Location: Liberty Hill, SC
I don't really see a big deal with it. Museums need to constantly change in order to continue to stay relevant to new generations. As said, if 1 out of every 100 children that attend a Chuggington or Thomas even goes on to volunteer and become a railroad preservationist, isn't that a win?

I wouldn't have an issue with it until all the stationary started having that logo and they painted it on the roof of the roundhouse so it could be seen from space. Or at least low orbit... Yeah, adding faces to the locomotives inside would kind of make me upset too, but like we say in the military vehicle hobby, it is there equipment, they can do what they want whether we like it or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:44 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
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Location: NJ
At some point all organizations need to put butts in seats or people in the park to survive. If changing a logo for a special event gets people in the door and thereby money in their pockets for that next restoration its a "win" for everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:59 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
airforcerail wrote:
like we say in the military vehicle hobby, it is there equipment, they can do what they want whether we like it or not.


No, they can't, even if you spell it right. The B&O Museum follows the accepted museum practice of maintaining their collection of historic artifacts for the benefit of the public responsibly and professionally. They have an entire bureaucracy dedicated to preventing shortsighted and stupid irreversible alterations, as should all of us who consider ourselves as legitimate museums. Tourist railroads are a different industry, producing theatrical events for paid visitors and run by different rules, and private owners doing things for their own enjoyment on their own dime are only bound by whatever regulations control the interaction of their activities with the general public, like motor vehicle laws. I'd recommend the B&O Museum as a very reputable and professionally managed organization unworthy of the insult.

Producing events to raise public awareness and support for your programming is becoming more and more the bread and butter and less the icing on the cake. Nationally marketed brands like Thomas provide a constituency of rabid fans whose toddler tyranny of their parents will encourage them to flock to your door, and spend a lot of money. The professional marketing expertise that comes with the booking of such an event package allows the least capable and businesslike group to do well - of course, you pay for all this, but unless a catastrophic interruption occurs, you are pretty well guaranteed to succeed to some extent. You can also, if you have the capability, home grow your own events and promote them. Having the discipline to draw and enforce a line drawn between your core mission and collections and ancillary event operation prevents problems that can compromise good museum management.

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 Post subject: Re: Beneath Dignity
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:26 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:07 pm
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It doesn't bother me at all that the B&O Museum uses this kind of advertising to attract youthful visitors. As children, we all started out by hearing infantile stories about "The Little Engine That Could". We learned to sing "The Little Red Caboose Behind The Train". We were exposed to simplistic stories about Casey Jones. It didn't hurt us, and in the long run I don't see how Chuggington or Thomas will hurt the next generation.

That being said, I have other reasons to question the priorities of the B&O Museum. I lost faith in them when I discovered that they scrapped a B&O twin offset side hopper several years ago, and turned down the donation of the last surviving B&O W-2 quad hopper. The B&O was a coal hauler, after all. Passenger service was noteworthy, but it was freight that paid the bills. Meanwhile, they continue to retain and display items relating to the Pere Marquette, C&O, and other railroads that have little or no connection to their namesake railroad. My comments should not be construed as suggesting there is anything wrong with preserving P.M. and C&O items in the proper context.

Tom


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