I have the "Pullman Descriptive List of Cars" dated March 1961 and none of the "CENTRAL" class are listed either in service or in Government storage.

Here is a spreadsheet with a listing of cars that were stored by Pullman from 1957 to 1962. The list is not complete and many dispostions remain unanswered. Information such as AC systems, plan numbers are from 1961 information, and Tom Madden's -Pullman Project can give more information on the cars as built.

Richard,

Thanks for posting the storage spreadsheet! I already noted some surviving cars which are included, for example, line item #156: 10S-1C-1DR Balsam Fir (Lot #6358, Plan #3973A, 1930), which UP rebuilt to dynamometer/mobile laboratory #210 in 1964.

I recently received some information on 3 surviving cars which have not yet been discussed in this thread, although the identities remain a mystery at this time:

The Orrville RR Heritage Society of Orrville, OH, is apparently in the process of moving locations, the new location being that of Dabo, Incorporated. There are several cars already at the Dabo site, which are not listed on the ORHS website, and I don't know for certain if these cars are owned by ORHS itself, ORHS members, or other private parties. Specifically, the information listed 3 heavyweight Pullmans, identities unknown, 3 New Haven coaches (also unknown), a New Haven round end observation (is this Watch Hill or Bunker Hill?), a NYC sleeper lounge (the Woodland Stream, without a doubt), and a GN sleeper (unless FEC has stopped using it, this is not the former Oberlin Glacier/Manitoba Club, but a second GN car, which I didn't know about). The Woodland Stream is owned by Glenn Bowman and was formerly stored in Lordstown, OH, but I don't know anything about the other cars.

It should be noted that it apparently has come up elsewhere (where exactly I don't know) that at least some, if not most, of the cars which are already in storage at Dabo might be scrapped if new owners for these cars are not found. Who exactly owns these cars, what their histories are, or the current/future status of this equipment is something I need to research further. Are any forum members familiar with this equipment, the histories, the owners, or what the plans/statuses are? Thanks in advance for any information that can be provided, whether on the forum or via back channels. Feel free to send a PM if necessary for anonymity/security.

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

The same source which sent the information on the Orrville cars also passed along a link to a thread from October 2004, started by Jason Midyette, who identifies the New Haven observation as the #476 Bunker Hill. Although it is not stated directly in that thread, it appears that the Bunker Hill is owned by John Birmingham/Boulder Scientific:



Is it possible that some of the other cars mentioned in the previous post are also owned by John Birmingham? Thanks in advance!

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11104

Also sent by the same source, is the fact that there are an unknown number of Strategic Air Command cars at the Nevada State Railroad Museum, and as it has been discussed previously in this thread, SAC converted a number of cars from surplus Pullmans. Do any forum members associated with NSRM have an idea of how many SAC cars, or for that matter, which ones, are part of the collection? While several surviving SAC cars have been mentioned before, so far I have not found any info which would identify these with their original Pullman names. Maybe for their cars, NSRM has looked in the usual places: doors, electrical cabinents, windows, etc. Thanks in advance!

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Another potential survivor:

Lambs Club (Lot #6289, Plan #3992, 1929, plr [13]-buf-din [12]-lng [16], PRR)--sold to PRR #7007 (1945) to MofW #492061 (1956) sold to Midwest RY Historical Foundation (MRHF) (when??)

I recently acquired a slide taken on 5/26/1991 by Jay Brown of MRHF #7007 in Cleveland. Of course, MRHF is now the Midwest RY Preservation Society. Are there are any MRPS members on here, or anyone else for that matter, that can confirm that the #7007 is still in the group's collection? If not, was it sold to another party or scrapped?

Here's a scan of the slide, as uploaded here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4259337



Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

A survivor I overlooked:

399. Burns (Lot #4726, Plan #3523, 1923, 6C-3DR, general service pool)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to GN (1949) and rebuilt to streamlined air brake instruction car #B1 (2nd) (August 1952*) to BN #B1 (1970) retired and sold to Southwest Railroad Car Parts, used as office (1983), resold to Gray Tuttle-Waccamaw Coast Line Railroad (when??), then to Les Kasten (when??), then to Mike Smith (1991), then acquired by Mark Middlesworth-Extravaganza Events & Props Inc. of Charlotte, NC (October 2001), located at "The Depot" in Charlotte, just a few blocks south of the Amtrak station.

*The GN diagram folio of August 1952 lists the conversion date as 1949, whereas Ringnalda lists August 1952.

The Burns was 1 of 10 sleepers built in Lot #4726, and these were the first cars built to Plan #3523, which replaced the previous Plan #2522 (7C-2DR).

Pictures:

BN #B1 in Denver, August 1st, 1977, from the FOBNR website (unknown photographer):

http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bnb1b.htm

2 Mike Smith photos of #B1 in 1987, from Ben Ringnalda's website:

http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/images/mow/GN_B1InstructionCar1.JPG



http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/images/mow/GN_B1InstructionCar2.JPG



Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Ben Ringnalda's GN website: http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/GNEThisMonthsFeature.php

___4a. Page listing surviving GN instruction cars: http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/index2.htm?GNEPreservedGNMOWEquipment_InstructionCars.htm

5. GN passenger car diagram folio of August 1952

6. Friends of the BN website: http://fobnr.org/

___6a. Page listing inherited business and company service cars: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/pbnbuscar.htm

___6b. Page for #B1: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bnb1.htm

___6c. Diagram for #B1: http://fobnr.org/bncarlist/passenger/bnb1a.htm

7. Extravaganza Events & Props website: http://www.extravaganzaevents.com/

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Looking through the Bytown Railway Society's listings again, here's some additional info on the Eagle Spring:

Changed from NAR baggage #1602 to CN "comboose" #7857 in November 1984, and acquired by the Rocky Mountain Rail Society in 1990.

Source:

1. Bytown Railway Society list of extant equipment for Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba, 2014 edition (PDF document): http://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/images/files/PreservedAB-SK-MB.pdf

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Looking through the Bytown listings, there are several sleepers and parlors which were sold directly to the Canadian roads. I don't have the original Lot or Plan numbers for these cars.

400. Kempton (May 1913, 12S-1DR)--sold to CP (1913) resold to Northern Alberta RYS (May 1945) renamed Rycroft (November 1947) transferred to MofW department and reconfigured to laundry-shower-recreation #18102 (circa 1967) acquired by the Alberta RY Museum in Edmonton (1983).

401. Keewatin (June 1913, 12S-1DR)--sold to CP (1913) resold to Northern Alberta RYS (May 1945) renamed Sexsmith (August 1947) reconfigured to rules instruction car #18001 (1966), now located in McLennan, AB, just north of the CN diesel shop, current owner unknown (CN?).

402. Kirkella (1913, 12S-1DR)--sold to CP (1913) transferred to MofW department as #411641 (November 1956) sold to Saskatchewan RR Historical Association-Saskatchewan RY Museum in Saskatoon (1996).

403. Colonsay* (August 1914, parlor)--sold to GT as #2560 (1914) to CN #546 and renamed Joseph (March 1924) reconfigured to coach #4953 (1st) (December 1942) transferred to MofW department as #64034 (October 1961) later sold to the Colonist Car Society (when??) resold to the Alberta RY Museum as the #5064 (when??) then resold to a private owner (1993) acquired by the Katie's Crossing restaurant in Ardrossan, AB (2001).

*The Bytown listings state that the name Colonsay can be seen underneath layers of paint. It doesn't say how many layers, or when this name might have been on the car, but seeing as how the rest of the car history is listed, I'm guessing this might have been the car's original name.

404. Canadian Northern colonist sleeper #7244 (May 1919)--sold to CNoR (1919) to CN #2794 (July 1920) rebuilt to combine #7196 (February 1956) sold to the British Columbia Chapter NRHS as #301 (1983).

405. Canadian Northern colonist sleeper #7202 (May 1919)--sold to CNoR (1919) to CN #2752 (March 1920) rebuilt to combine #7180 (January 1951) transferred to MofW department as cable car #57959 (August 1973) sold to the Railway & Forestry Museum in Prince George, BC (1989).

406. Grand Trunk Pacific tourist sleeper #3410 (September 1913)--sold to GTP (1913) to Canadian Gov't RYS #1215 (1915) rebuilt to business car #41 (November 1916) to CN #55 (July 1919) to #89 (1st) (August 1924) to #62 (2nd) (September 1959) to #15105 (2nd) (March 1978) sold to the Railway & Forestry Museum as GTP Nechako (July 1988).

407. Royalton (1903, 12S-1DR)--to Tourist #5280 (September 1918) returned to Royalton (September 1919) reconfigured to coach #197 (September 1924) sold to GTW as #4863 (February 1928) sold to private owner (January 1971) resold to Ohio Central (1986) then to Pacific Wilderness RY #120 (2000) acquired by the Saanich Historical Artifact Society in Saanichton, BC (2001) and moved to Saanichton in October 2002.

408. Canadian Northern colonist sleeper #7222 (1919)--sold to CNoR (1919) to CN #2772 (March 1920) rebuilt to combine #7199 (April 1956) transferred to MofW department and rebuilt to crane idler flatcar #58113 (1980) sold to unknown party* and moved to Savona, BC, next to the Steelhead Provincial Park (circa 1996).

*Is this car actually owned by the Provincial Park?

409. Canadian Northern colonist sleeper #7230 (May 1919)--sold to CNoR (1919) to CN #2780 (March 1920) rebuilt to combine #7186 (April 1951) sold to the West Coast RY Association in Squamish, BC (1989).

410. Stadacona (May 1912, 10S-2DR)--sold to Intercolonial RY (1912) to CN #1497 (June 1920) rebuilt to rules instruction car #15019 (September 1951) sold to Gogama Town Library (September 1972) acquired by the Northern Ontario RR Museum & Heritage Centre in Capreol (1982) and cosmetically restored as the Stadacona (2010).

411. Canadian Northern colonist sleeper #7213 (May 1919)--sold to CNoR (1919) to CN #2763 (May 1920) rebuilt to combine #7185 (April 1951) sold to the South Simcoe RY as #322 and named Esquesing (1972) now owned by the South Simcoe RY Heritage Corporation in New Tecumseth, ONT (1994?).

412. Canadian Northern colonist sleeper #7212 (May 1919)--sold to CNoR (1919) to CN #2762 (March 1920) rebuilt to combine #7195 (February 1956) sold to the Toronto & York Division of the Canadian RR Historical Association (October 1973) resold to the Smiths Falls RY Museum of Eastern Ontario (in Smiths Falls) (1990).

413. Sans Pareil (1896, parlor)--sold to Dominion Atlantic RY (1896) rebuilt to business car Nova Scotia (1912) to CP #7 (5th) (1956) sold to the Upper Canada RY Society (1963) resold to the London Middlesex Historical Society (1969) then to the Ossawippi Express Dining Cars in Orillia, ONT (1970) acquired by the Toronto RY Historical Association (John Street Roundhouse) (January 2013).

414. Canadian Northern colonist sleeper #7233 (May 1919)--sold to CNoR (1919) to CN #2783 (March 1920) reconfigured to coach #4960 (May 1954) sold to the Bytown RY Society (July 1989) acquired by the York-Durham Heritage RY Association in Uxbridge, ONT (November 1994).

Sources:

1. Bytown Railway Society's lists of extant equipment, 2014 edition (all PDF documents):

___1a. Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba: http://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/images/files/PreservedAB-SK-MB.pdf

___1b. British Columbia, Northwest Territories, and Yukon Territory: http://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/images/files/PreservedBC-NWT-YT.pdf

___1c. Ontario: http://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/images/files/PreservedONT.pdf

___1d. Quebec, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland & Labrador: http://www.bytownrailwaysociety.ca/images/files/Preserved-QUE-NB-PE-NS-NL.pdf

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

I recently acquired a copy of the "Private Passenger Car Annual Volume One: 1980", which was compiled by David L. Briggs and published by W. David Randall's RPC Publications. Unlike the RPC Annuals, there were no subsequent additions of the PPC Annual, and despite the information being now 35 years out of date, I have begun processing data from this volume, including several corrections or further info for several cars which have been discussed in this thread, as well as several potential additional survivors worth mentioning, as there's always the chance that forum members will know what has happened to these cars in the last 3 and a half decades. I haven't gone through the entire volume yet, so there will be several additional posts.


Briggs lists that the Clover Plot was WP #701, and that this number was present on the car until at least the time of storage on the Sierra Railway in Jamestown.


Briggs lists the 1974-1978 owner as "Air Careers Company", that the Dover Harbor was numbered #912, and that the company was located in Silver Spring, MD.


Briggs makes no mention of the Railcruise Company, and lists that the Dover Patrol was owned by Great Western Tours as #110 before going to the Sierra Railway as #10.


Briggs lists that the McChesney was formerly owned by the Atlanta Chapter NRHS, but does not list when it was acquired from or donated by SOU. The McChesney was withheld from lease in 1965, so this would be the likely year that the car left SOU property. Does anyone know when the car went to NCTM? Thanks in advance!


Briggs lists that the Murray Hill was rebuilt (withdrawn from lease 1955) by the New Haven to business car #4, and that it was later (when??) sold to George R. Silcott as #4, then resold (when??) to John E. Thompson as #4, then (when??) back to George Silcott (still #4), then (when??) resold to the Tulsa-Sapulpa Union Railway as #4.

Sources:

1. "Private Passenger Car Annual Volume One: 1980" by David L. Briggs (RPC Publications, 1980)

2. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

3. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Great Western Tours was based in San Francisco and one of the principals was Dick Reynolds. Reyonds was associated wtih the San Francisco railfan groups and I think he had once worked in one of the railroad ticket offices. Pre=Amtrak Great Western Tours operated railroad based excursions in the western U.S. and into Mexico.

Then during the 1970s when the Crocker family got involved once again with the active management of the Sierra and steam excursions were operated, Great Western was running the dinner and other party trains. This is why a number of Great Western cars ended up stored at Jamestown on the Sierra.

When the White Pine Historical Railroad Foundation took over the southern portion of the Nevada Northern, Dick Reynolds was the first general manager.

Reynolds probably had other railroad related activities and ventures.

Thanks, Brian, for the info on Dick Reynolds!

More info from the "Private Passenger Car Annual":


Briggs lists that the Glacier was owned by the Atlanta Chapter NRHS, with no date given for the acquisition from SOU, but the car was withdrawn from lease in 1965, so this is the likely date. Does anyone know when the Glacier went to LASTA? Thanks in advance!


The Central Plateau became Belt Railway of Chicago safety instruction car #1891, and Briggs lists that it was sold (when??) to Don Heimberger, then resold (when??) to Ted Lemen, and then was acquired (when??) by a Ms. J. Howe of Lincoln, IL.


Briggs lists that the #2800 was rebuilt in 1959 to LIRR coach #7500, with 54 seats, that the car was acquired (when??) by the Sunrise Trail Chapter NRHS, with the name Sunrise Trail applied (although this might have been just to state the car's ownership), and leased to the Black River & Western. Does anyone know how long the car was leased to BR&W, or when it went to the New Hope & Ivyland? Thanks in advance!


Briggs lists that the WSS&YP was owned or operated by the Montana Central Railroad & Recreation Company, and that the WSS&YP had 2 NP coaches, with neither of the car numbers listed. Does anyone know the number of this 2nd mystery car, or if it is still extant? Thanks in advance!

Sources:

1. "Private Passenger Car Annual Volume One: 1980" by David L. Briggs (RPC Publications, 1980)

2. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

3. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

After the car was withdrawn from lease in November 1949, CofG modified the Monte Rosa to an instruction car and renamed it Progress. Briggs lists that it was later (when??) sold or donated to the Atlanta Chapter NRHS. Does anyone know when the car went to the Atlanta Chapter, or when it was sold to Robert Snow? Thanks in advance!


Under Reynolds' ownership, this car was still #105, with the name Argonaut applied, and like several other cars owned by Reynolds, was stored on the Sierra RY. It is still owned by Napa Valley, and the name Argonaut is still on the car.


Briggs lists that WP #103 was rebuilt from a Pullman sleeper named Glen Eyre, but not a 6-3 car built in 1925. Rather, the #103 was rebuilt from the Glen Eyre (1st), which was built in 1898 to Plan #1379B. Briggs does not list the Lot #, the configuration, what the history of the car was before it was rebuilt to a business car, or when this rebuild took place. Does anyone have more info on this car, either as owned by Pullman or WP? Thanks in advance!


Briggs lists that the Fir Park was acquired (when??) by the Strasburg and resold (when??) to an unknown party. Does anyone know who acquired this car from Strasburg, or if it is still extant? Thanks in advance!

Sources:

1. "Private Passenger Car Annual Volume One: 1980" by David L. Briggs (RPC Publications, 1980)

2. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

3. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment, 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

What became of the Pullman car Cromwell that SP&S 700 pulled as crew car in the early 1990's? I know the old NP baggage car survived for a while. But the Cromwell I have never found any information on it's current status?

Robert