Commercial Rail Bikes on the Adirondack

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:59 am

This article in the NY Times will guarantee at least some publicity and discussion:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/08/nyreg ... doubt.html

Quote:

Rail Explorers, the company that operates the attraction in northern New York, said its rail bikes were the first to be used commercially in the United States. Passengers sit side by side in a slightly reclined position, with pedals far enough in front of them that they can extend their legs.
The track is mostly level from the village of Saranac Lake to the tiny Lake Clear Junction depot. But with a little extra effort, riders can travel over 20 m.p.h. on moderate downgrades. The trek takes about an hour. (The cost to rent a two-passenger rail bike is $50 and $100 for a four-passenger version.)

I think the proverbial "can of worms" may have just been opened.

Heavenrich · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am **Posts:** 630

Starting with a total lack of fact checking... rail bikes (per my least favorite source) have been around for nearly two centuries.

See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draisine

Bob H

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:27 pm

But a commercial rental operation?

This is as big as the difference between explorers rafting down the Colorado versus having guides and charter groups do "whitewater rafting". Or renting a bike or boat at the shore versus bringing your own. Or, if you will, an excursion passenger operation that brings you back to your origin in an hour or so versus waiting for the one or two scheduled passenger trains on the line--provided any ran, of course.

I'm a little big for the "Cranky Cars" at Knobels Grove in Pennsylvania, so......... please show me another place in North America where I can legally rent or hire a myself-propelled railway railbike, handcar, speeder, or what-have-you and take it out on a rail line for the day. NOT gas speeder, NOT clandestinely, NOT a NARCOA outing..........

Heavenrich · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am **Posts:** 630

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

But a commercial rental operation?

.

It's not a new idea....

see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss ... e_Railroad

Bob H

Randy Gustafson · **Posted:** Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:38 pm

We looked at this for a section of the WVC below Spruce in 1996.

That had the rather interesting sideline of a sustained steep grade toward Webster Springs. One of the outfitters down there looked into it, same deal, like rental hardware.

The developer of the hardware allowed us, state officials, and other bystanders to try it out. In this case, it was an outrigger on a relatively standard bicycle, with a front guide assembly but the two wheels were right on the rail head. It did work, I rode it.

You had to lightly lean over into the outrigger wheel/roller, which was unnatural, and you couldn't get your feet to touch ground when you were on the bike - again, rather unnatural. The potential for some relatively serious injury seemed too real.

A four-wheeler that you couldn't easily overturn has some potential, as long as you can figure out a way to get it back to home port if the engine 'runs out of gas'.

We have a modern three-wheeler in here we use for track inspection. It works. It's a recumbent version rather than an upright - keeping your center of gravity and potential fall distance much lower. The only unintended consequence was that it almost rolled away from us once on a railroad 'not to be named', and would have had an 18-mile coast before it stopped. That pretty much ended it's non-recreational career many years ago.

All hardware is not created equal.

Imagine, however, if bicycles weren't ever invented and in common use, if they now were to make an appearance as an alternate transportation mode. Insurance, law enforcement, child safety groups, etc. would all consider it impossible and infeasible.

There's all kinds of issues to be concerned about, both location-specific and general, but having spent a good deal of time whitewater rafting (and signing various releases agreeing that yes, this can kill me) I can't believe it can't be done in specific locations where the corridors are publicly owned and no active rail traffic exists.

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1087

Heavenrich wrote:

Starting with a total lack of fact checking... rail bikes (per my least favorite source) have been around for nearly two centuries.

Bob, the sixth paragraph of the article says:

NY Times article wrote:

Rail biking is not a new concept, at least not in other countries. Invented about 200 years ago, the bikes are used now for recreation in several European countries and in South Korea, where riders can explore defunct mining towns."

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3011

Heavenrich wrote:

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

But a commercial rental operation?

.

It's not a new idea....

No, it's not. Seems like a new operation shows up once a year or so, generates a big burst of publicity and then... you never hear from them again.

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3011

Looks like this one in Oregon is still around.

http://jbrailriders.com/

Steve A W · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:43 pm

I think this would be fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6O3rRS-QUg

Steve A W

RDGRAILFAN · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:32 pm

What an interesting way to stop the trail people in their tracks.
No new investment...use what is in place.
Immediate implementation ( no or limited money to be spent) and benefits to the community with "new" non-railroading bikers and thrill seekers coming in spending their money.
Now somebody needs to figure out how to capture the winter bike rail business that the trail people would not have and you have the trail people boxed in!

boilerwash · **Posted:** Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:15 pm

Quote:

I think this would be fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6O3rRS-QUg

I've been wanting to build something like this for myself for forever however in "the greatest industrialized nation in the world" god forbid you be able to find somebody that will sell much less make a decent set of flanged wheels. You can find them but the few handful that have them want a bloody kings ransom for them.

Yet in the third world you can apparently get full flanged axles with the belt drive wheel already installed and their government will give you the engines!

Quote:

No new investment...use what is in place.
Immediate implementation ( no or limited money to be spent)

Not exactly. About the only place in the country I can find that's making these things commercially is RailRiders and they want $4,000 A PIECE for their units.

Not only that but unless you're talking about working with a museum operation that already owns its tracks (which is going to be annoying in its own right) you're talking about trying to convince the local politico's to buy whatever out of service branchline is locally available which the railroad will want about 20 times what its worth. There's a few reasons you don't see more of these things.

I thought about bringing this up in my old hometown that currently has no less than three separate coal branches leading out of town in various directions that are all out of service. However the combination of being in CSX country (who would tell the town to **** off as much as speak to them) and the fact the town has no economy to begin with and couldn't afford to either buy one of the branches or the aformentioned $4,000 bikes, I dropped the idea fairly quickly.

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1087

A recent article about the rail bikes:

Quote:

FRANKLIN COUNTY, N.Y. -- The fate of an Adirondack railroad hasn't been decided yet, but if part of it is torn down and becomes a recreational trail, one new local business will have to put the brakes on their plans. Rail Explorers USA co-owners Alex Catchpoole and his wife Mary moved from Australia to Brooklyn, where they came up with the dream of starting up a rail bike company.

"We came across the Adirondack Scenic Rail, the railroad and started looking at beautiful Google images of the railroad and just fell in love with this part of the world," said Catchpoole. Customers ride the bikes a six-mile stretch between Saranac Lake and Lake Clear. This is opening year for Rail Explorers and the company has already garnered some attention.

"It's something different to do, and it's a more slow pace instead of walking to see the foilage and the lights and just the countryside," said rider Peggy Steenburgh.

The full article:
TWCNews: Adirondack Rail-Trail Debate Could Put the Brakes on Local Business Owner's Plans (September 26, 2015)

jefalcsik · **Joined:** Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:42 am **Posts:** 84

The Rail Explorers USA operation is attracting terrific attention. If you monitor some of the social media posts from customers who have experienced the ride it is providing the kind of "value-added recreation" you can't get from a rail-trail. In addition to being 100% booked every day this summer, this is attracting out of state tourists, some driving 6 and 7 hours one way to ride these rails.

Perhaps not scientific at all, but consider the social networking that is going on for this enterprise. Thousands of "Likes" on Facebook in just a few months, totally eclipsing the similar indicator for the trail group (ARTA) that has had a FB presence for several years. The "Share" value also indicates awareness of the operation is spreading like crazy. I also believe the operator is tracking customer zip codes and encouraging patrons to contact the DOT/DEC to preserve the rail corridor. Nothing compares to having the data of paying customers instead of small sample extrapolations for projecting trail usage.

Chris Webster · **Joined:** Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am **Posts:** 1087

The editorial board of the Albany, NY Times Union says to "develop the rail trail between Lake Placid and Tupper Lake, and see how well it does":
An inelegant compromise (TU Editorial Board on October 6, 2015 at 3:30 AM)

An excerpt:

Quote:

To its credit, the state agreed to take a new look at the 1996 management plan for the Remsen-Lake Placid corridor. An economic study concluded that a revived rail line would generate more spending, jobs and tourists than a trail, but that a blend of the two options was best. A decision is now pending. The idea: Pull up the tracks between Lake Placid and Tupper Lake for a trail, and use the rest for an improved tourist rail.

But the study had a major flaw: It looked only at out-of-state patrons. It’s hard to imagine many people paying to take a tourist train in their own backyard, but easy to envision Adirondack residents, and plenty of other New Yorkers, taking advantage of a well-developed multi-use trail for free exercise in the backwoods.

Regarding that "free" exercise, I'll point out that NY State has the highest combined sales and income tax rate in the entire country: TurboTax: States with the Highest and Lowest Taxes

PaulWWoodring · **Posted:** Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:24 pm

Could something like this be a solution to continue operating something on the former Virginian NS P-D sub in WV and VA that is about to be embargoed or abandoned for lack of traffic? I've never really been around it, other than to photograph 765 going under the bridge at Deepwater on a New River excursion. While a 50 mile trip is pretty long, it could be divvied up into smaller chunks. Given all of the whitewater rafting in that region, it might have appeal to that type of tourist. I'm pretty sure that NS would have to totally sell the line for it to even be open for discussion.