It was Cordele, not Albany. The Marietta property was obtained by the municipal government public utilities department. They neglected to do any of the things they had indicated would be done to preserve the history of the Glover works, and the Big Shanty Museum in Kennesaw stepped in after approaches to other potential recipients were unproductive. It's a cotton gin, owned by the Frye family, and should GENERAL ever be moved off the premises, they would take it back and put the very valuable property into more remunerative commercial use. The museum provided some very interesting drawings showing what a museum about the Glover works could be, but was unable to actually reach the goal of building out that far reaching concept - but at least a lot of the physical locomotive oriented fabric left at Glovers was retained - I was one of those who worked through an ice storm when the roofs were half removed from the buildings to triage the locomotive material from the bulk of everything. It was not well organized....... but we did what we could.

The 0-4-0Ts were 3 foot and meter gauge, specifically, but referred to as 39 3/8" in all construction documents.

The most painful loss was not metal, but probably 40 file cabinets filled with the paper history that ran from reconstruction through the 1970s.

Why this was lost is very different from the current situation in Chicago. That museum's management has decided to change their mission for what are reasons they have determined help them serve their public better than not changing.... which rather than being a problem for us, means that railway preservation organizations who want to expand their collections to increase their ability to fulfill their missions and have been well managed to the extent that they have resources available to do so now have the opportunity to acquire some very rare artifacts. We should congratulate our brothers who have put themselves into this position, and ask ourselves how we can become better equipped to respond when the next opportunity shows up if we aren't as well resourced.

This isn't about whining when the Chicago museum evolves, as we all need to more than we do - this is about our becoming better equipped to act ourselves. We should be complaining about our own organizations and positioning ourselves better, and working for the cultural changes we need to make to do it, especially the more painful ones like working from an outward perspective rather than self-serving.

The 1834 locomotive, "Mississippi", survived the Battle of Vicksburg and was used by both sides during the Civil War. It was exhibited in the World's Columbian Exposition in 1893, the Louisiana Purchase Exposition in 1904, and the Chicago World's Fair of 1933-45. It was entrusted to the Museum of Science & Industry, installed and placed on exhibit in 1938 where it has remained safe for 8 decades. The museum's quest for money seems to have overshadowed preservation. After more than a century of being accessible to the public it could end up in private hands with an uncertain future. This is nothing short of an epic demonstration of failed governance and reckless collections management by a once highly esteemed museum.

These historic treasures are artifacts, not assets. If the mission has shifted, a more responsible way to transfer these locomotives should be sought out. A loan, trade, or sale to a museum with proven governance and a responsible collections policy would be a million times better than sale to the highest bidder.

Everything is uncertain with the upcoming auction. She could end up on display in the snack bar of a Dubai indoor bobsledding park, hanging from the ceiling of a casino in Macau China, turned into a novelty deep fryer on the boardwalk in Atlantic City, or being converted into a giant clock by some middle school kid in Texas. There is no mechanism in place to insure preservation into the future.

This is outrageous.

The MSI has been evolving for years. It already had deaccessioned at least one locomotive, the large Santa Fe engine to IRM. I am sure they thought long and hard about this move. I would hope some folks would take this opportunity to preserve these engines and equipment in interesting, appropriate settings. Steamtown comes to mind immediately. The Ford Museum. The Chicago Historical Society or maybe Greenfield Village for the horsecar. Other museums with locomotives, indoor storage, and a national focus include the Smithsonian, Forney Museum and the Franklin Institute.

Could the seller place stipulations on the conditions of the sale, such that the equipment remains available on public display?

The Pennsy cab should be looked at by RMLI, OBRM, and Strasburg RR, as a source of parts for the two G5s restorations.

That would be a good place to start but seems to have been overlooked in their quest for the almighty dollar.

We can only hope that the completely intact PRR cab hat has been preserved for half a century gets parted out. That would be fantastic.

I'm not so sure how complete the cab and backhead really are. It was hard to tell last time I was there; the cab was a jungle gym for little urchins with absolutely NO interpretive information.

It could use a better home... but I agree, it should be offered for further preservation and display, not sold to become a cabinet for some rich guy's wet bar.

As a matter of interest, are there any safeguards in place in the US regarding the disposal of de-acessioned items from Museums - ie do they have to be offered to similar institutions first before they go on the open market?

In the UK, if you are a Museum registered with the Museums & Galleries Commission (or whatever the current title is), you are bound to offer the de-accessioned items to similar Registered museums first, before any other method of disposal is considered.

I know, from a local Museum I have been involved with for the past 35+ years, that the de-accessioning process itself is generally a long job and generates a fair amount of paperwork before you actually circularise the information of the object(s) for disposal to other Museums. This, however, at least gives a chance for interested parties, both Publicly owned institutions and Private groups/charities to "stake a claim" before they go onto the open market.

I personally would like to see York and Mississippi loaned (or even better, given outright) to the B&O Museum. York certainly belongs there and Mississippi would fill a gap in the collection.

The other two steam replicas are perhaps somewhat less important. The Stevens is only a speculation of what the actual machine looked like, and the Rocket could probably find a home in England where it would be more appreciated.

I'd like to see the PRR cab saved; the Railroad Museum of PA is perhaps the best choice for it, if in fact they have the space to display it.

The only way I know of is to get the item(s) on the National Historic Place or sites or some such.

For instance, The Cunbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad is a fine example of history (it is on one list) with both 64 miles of line and almost all original equipment (D&RGW) or new equipment manufactured in historic ways (new passenger cars are built in the 1940s style of the 6500 series fish belly flat cars and then altered to the current passenger car design). There are two Oahu Railroad and Land GE 45 ton diesels that were at Pearl Harbor During WWII and are used to move C&TS equipment around in the off-season.

The C&TS is also on a list for Historic Engineering sites since it is a fine example of how to build a railroad through a mountain pass in the 1880s.

I think some of the equipment is also registered on its own merit.

If the equipment is on a historic list, it does not mean that it can not be scrapped or moved BUT it makes it a lot harded to do so documentation wise.

The C&TS (if I remember correctly) is having documentation prepared for it to be listed on the UN's historic list also.

There are holes. The steam boat Delta Queen rode up and down the Mississippi River for multi day cruses. It failed the DOT safety regulations since it had a wooden hull (not enough life boats). The safety regulations were based on ocean going ships with no provisions for exeptions for boats operating on rivers. No exemption or special clause was put in the appropriations law so the Delta Queen needed a special exemption law passed every year.

During the Obama administration, the fight between the Democrats and Republicans got to the point that the exemption for the Delta Queen was not renewed. If I recall correctly, she is tied up near Chattanooga, Tennessee as a floating Casino.

If the law was changed or an annual exemption renewed, she could operate again.

I hope this helps some.

Doug vV

[quote="Dougvv"][quote]

If I recall correctly, she is tied up near Chattanooga, Tennessee as a floating Casino.

Doug vV[/quote]

The Delta Queen is in New Orleans being restored for operation:

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/loca ... de/293835/

FANTASTIC!!!

I'm surprised to see they're getting rid of these artifacts. Railroads were what made Chicago, and they're still a big part of the city. This stuff should be preserved and properly displayed.

However... I suspect it's too late to get them to change their mind. They want money and want the space for something that will draw bigger crowds and increase the gate count, like maybe those fake animitronic dinosaurs.

It would appear that the only thing that can be done at this point is to try and encourage the museum of your choice to acquire and display the artifact(s) you feel they should have. I agree with the example that the PRR Cab Display would be perfect for Altoona. Heck, move it and create the world's coolest train simulator from it then charge for folks to use it.

I suspect that the strongest motivation you could provide would be to do some fund raising. Use the social media tool of your choice, and tell them "If you get artifact X at the auction, we will donate $X to help cover the acquisition costs."

Obviously this will be trickier than that, getting the funds, making sure they know you're serious and will follow through on your promise, making sure they have the means and space to display and care for it, etc, etc.

But it might be one way to help save these things. Or we can all just sit back and hope that a certain gentleman who seems to have a standing buy order for anything matching "steam locomotive" snaps them all up and hope he treats them kindly once he does.

The folks at Altoona already have a "#1361" cab on display..

http://cencalrails.railfan.net/altoona9.jpg

One example of MS&I collections thinking: when the 999 and Pioneer Zephyr were brought indoors, they were considered part of a group of artifacts that set world land speed records. There is a Craig Breedlove-designed (and driven) race car that set two world land speed records on the Bonneville Salt Flats sitting near what's left of the railroad collection.

No longer a project of the Commercial Club of Chicago, the MS&I has in recent times moved toward the modern ideas of the "Museum Community" in this country. The Board Chair of a very large Chicago-based company I once worked for, on being named to a similar position at MS&I, complained that: "it's too much about the past" (perhaps unconsciously echoing the views of Marinetti and the Italian Futurist School, which attacked cultural tradition as a straitjacket and called for the destruction of museums and libraries).

Well, that makes the idea of a simulator even better. They have one on display that everyone can view and learn from, and a second one that would be used as a simulator. Obviously it would get some wear, but if they have a second one in pristine condition, it's not such a big deal.