Presented for discussion without comment:

https://www.gofundme.com/steamloco0973

I applaud his enthusiasm but this doesn't sound like a well thought out plan. And I have to wonder about honoring Buffalo's industrial past with a Chinese steam locomotive.

Given the lower cost of FRA compliance work done in China, you have to wonder why he wants to do it here........ and what is the meaning of $20K to "be a search?" Confused - but I don't know if it's me or him.

Sounds like he needs to talk to the people who brought the QJ's over didn't they have quite a few problems with that and wound up stuck with a locomotive nobody wanted?

The usual questions that one asks any person who wants to "start up" an operation comes into play here. The poster mentions that he wants to "jump start steam excursions, and the future possibility of a new tourist railroad" - if it's some brand new railroad that he wants to start, he's going to need a lot more than just a steam locomotive...

Anyone can start a Go Fund Me page with little or no effort. This has the markings of a well-intentioned yet ill-prepared railfan with no strategy. The crowd funding success stories have deluded many to believe that it's easy to raise large amounts of money for personal passion projects. Anyone here knows that it does take passion and blind devotion to make something like this successful; but that will only get you so far - or in this case, a total of $0 contributed in 13 days.

It is my hope that my post is seen as something that may help those who are considering these types of "start-ups."

Over the course of the past three years I have been approached by a number of projects asking for my (Wasatch RR Cont.) support, either in a financial way or in a donation of goods and services. Without mentioning projects or specifics, I will tell you what I see as the major reason why these projects are not moving along as fast or as well as the owner (s) of the project would have hoped. Again, I offer this hoping that those making the attempts would see the note as helpful advice, not as criticism. We criticize too often. We need to make a culture shift to the more positive side of the force, Luke.

1. This purchase and the presentation has no firm business plan. It is a hope and a wish and a hobby of one person who has spoken to one company (one very expensive Chinese company that deals in imports). It needs a detailed business plan that includes way more than just the facts of being a railfan.

2. There seems to be no skin in the game. One of the best TV shows ever, Shark Tank, teaches us very quickly that in business, investors want to see how much of your own skin ($$$) you have in the game. Somebody with a great idea and even a great business plan with no past experience and no skin in the game really has nothing. In so many of the "start up" projects that have been brought to me (over 99% of them) the owner (s) have very little....if any skin in the game. Yet, at the same time, they want others to be the primary financial backers while THEY the recipients of the $$$$ make all of the decisions. Another way to look at it; People come to me wanting me to put up 99% of the money while they retain 99% of the leadership. Wrong equation. I put up 99% of the money, I get 99% of the control to see it work. You can not be a 25% owner of your own project with zero down. It just does not work that way. It works at the Chevy dealer, but not in real life.

3. Closed books. If you are going to set up a 501 c 3 or any other form of a non profit for the purpose of raising money for your dream, you need to be VERY open book about it. One project had asked us to donate goods and services. I had been watching the fund raising efforts and was willing to donate until the day came that I asked a question about how well the fund raising had gone. The response "I can't tell you anything about how much money we have, we have to keep that close to the vest." What? Really? You are asking for donations and you are asking for people to donate goods and services but you can not be open book about what you do have or how it is being handled? So....how does one expect me or anyone else to donate if we can not see where the donation went or how it is used? For you "start up's", OPEN the books and post an annual report and show your progress. You will get more support by being open book.

4. Carts about a mile in front of the horse (s). "Hey, I can start a "go fund me", show people how cool I think trains are, prove it by saying that I went to a bunch of train events and saw the 844 run and then, when people donate, I'll figure out a way to make it all happen and make it a success.....even though really, I work a 9-5 job, have never owned or run a business but my boss is a jerk and if he can do it, so can I."

Sorry to be so direct, too many.....way too many of these start up projects have owners who have gone through this identical process and come to people like me, where I have asked the hard questions and then said to me; "Can you help me write my business plan? Can you be the primary financial supporter so it looks like we have support? Can you help me get the legal work done we need done so we can be a real non-profit?" All of this should have happened WAAAAAYYYYYYYY before the post on Go Fund Me was ever written. Unfortunately, we have a lot of very well meaning people starting projects that they thought up and look like great ideas without doing all of the hard work first to prove them out.

Not to be the naysayer; Is this Chinese engine idea a good one? Sure. Could it work? Sure. Could it be a great success? Sure. At the same time, it can only be any of these if the right work is done before the dream is presented to the masses and I fear, in too many cases, the dream is presented before the hard work has been done and even proven.

Just trying to help those with great ideas get the support of those who have the money to support other great ideas.

Kindly,

Aren't the IAIS engines available?

John,

Very well stated. Thank you.

Regards,

Art S.

Well, a good solid plan is certainly important, even vital. But in the end:

It's the TRACKS, stupid.

Does anyone here dare dispute that simple point?

There are plenty of locomotives out there. Many museums have had them donated, in more or less working order. A dedicated middle class enthusiast could even reasonably buy a diesel locomotive and restore it to working order. But how many running units are stranded on a few miles, or a few thousand feet, or a few hundred feet....or less, of track?

Secure the track first, then worry about the train!

"Cart before the horse" indeed seems to be a very good phrase for this guy's plan (or lack, thereof).
No wonder he's collected $0 so far...

Right there with you John.

Assuming we are talking about Buffalo, NY, do these guys know that there is a nice hefty CP 2-8-2 in Depew, NY on an abandoned spur looking for a benefactor to give her a new lease on life?

Rob Gardner

Those of you following this thread should go follow the Fund Raising Experiment No 1 by Wasatch.

JohnE.

I would agree with that line of thinking. She was in pretty sorry shape the last time I saw her.

Robert