WBAL TV just showed footage from an on-the-site visit to the B&O Museum, including interview with director Courtney Wilson. The usual superficial TV drivel, but here's more data:

Pere Marquette 11 is now out of the building, with little more than broken FRA glazing to repair. Cranes are now picking roof members off the remaining damaged section of the roundhouse.

Wilson alleges that they believe everything can be repaired... Unfortunately, the stark view of CNJ coach 20 (which apparently was chopped down the middle lengthwise by falling debris) makes me scoff. The tender of Camel 217 looks basically intact with some damage to top flanges.

So now another 5-10 inches of snow is falling.......

lner4472@bcpl.net

Its times like this that I wonder why I and alot of other people are in the train museum business. A tragic accident occurs and the people in charge are trying their best to figure out how to make the best of a really bad situation and along comes some armchair expert who from his expert observation of a news repot "scoffs at the idea that something can be restored after it is damaged. Give these guys a chance to breath and see what happens dont just start kicking them because they are down.


johndeck@cox.net

Please folks, let's not go down this road and have another duel of credentials, offenses taken, etc. There's been enough of that this week, with me your moderator participating in some of it. Could we all just cool down a bit and avoid "colorful" phrases like scoff, and armchair expert, in connection with this subject?



eledbetter@rypn.org

As Ye High & Mighty Moderator requested, I will refrain from any "I saw it and you didn't" credential bashing.

But there IS one important point I wish to bring up: There's another one of those cars still intact and badly in need of restoration inside the Museum's Restoration Shop. IF the damaged car were truly unique and original (as opposed to having been rehashed by the B&O in 1927), I would boldly defend reassembly--as I will with the baggage car in the wreckage, because it IS unique in that respect.

lner4472@bcpl.net

1) The TV stations are reporting that the Museum is expecting to take about two weeks to make an initial assessment of the rolling stock damage.

2) there was another piece of equipment visible in the TV reports, a horse-drawn steam fire engine. Guess I'm not being allowed to assess damage to asomething I may know nothing about.... but it sure reminded me of a Matchbox toy car I stepped on in my youth......

lner4472@bcpl.net

I started my railroad career at the Huckleberry in Flint' Michigan 25 years ago, and I have been fortunate to have had some backstage visits to the California State RR Museum. I have seen with my own eyes what has been brought back to life from utter garbage in wooden coach restoration. Yes, what results may be more of a reconstruction than restoration, but frankly, any wooden coach that ran more than fifteen years on a real railroad is Paul Bunyan's axe, anyway (you know, replaced handle three times, head twice . . . . .)

Hard decisions will have to made in reconstruting the Museum. But the coach reconstruction could be handled by the likes of Glen Guerra or the Strasburg, if that is the direction the Museum ultimately takes. And the results, frankly, may be operable behind the 25 again, which recently they were too fragile to do.

Steve Zuiderveen

SZuidervee@aol.com

I have seen with my own eyes what
> has been brought back to life from utter
> garbage in wooden coach restoration. Yes,
> what results may be more of a reconstruction
> than restoration, but frankly, any wooden
> coach that ran more than fifteen years on a
> real railroad is Paul Bunyan's axe, anyway
> (you know, replaced handle three times, head
> twice . . . . .)

A similar situation exists on these wooden cars--acquired from the CNJ and rebuilt by the B&O in 1927 to replicate Civil War era cars.

> Hard decisions will have to made in
> reconstruting the Museum. But the coach
> reconstruction could be handled by the likes
> of Glen Guerra or the Strasburg, if that is
> the direction the Museum ultimately takes.
> And the results, frankly, may be operable
> behind the 25 again, which recently they
> were too fragile to do.

*And therein lies the rub.

They're going to have a major internal conflict between the curatorial side, aiming towards preservation of even a 1927 replica which is now itself an artifact, versus the operational side, wanting to demonstrate the equipment and infect us with the greatness of railroading. This museum in particular must go through similar disputes on a very frequent basis--look at the steaming of the Mason, etc., and their use of "consumable" rebuilt flat cars on their tourist runs on the First Mile.

Philosophically, my own assessment would be to 1) preserve and restore the unrestored 21 as a true artifact (the "encase it in amber" approach); 2) repair and restore the baggage car 10 as best as possible in as original a form as its history can be determined; and 3) surrender to "reality" and rebuild the 20 with old and new parts into something more usable--something the Strasburg would have no hesitation putting on their trains if it had air brakes--so people can walk inside, wear out the floor, ride behind the Mason, etc.

From this we would have one "original" artifact, one salvaged artifact, and one usable passenger car.

But get real--much as the 20 looks like potential firewood, NO ONE that I know of (not even yours truly!) is advocating just junking that car or anything else in that roundhouse.

lner4472@bcpl.net

Speaking of what has been brought back to life from utter garbage is the example pictured below.
This boxcar was assembled from new material and pieces of 2 boxcars of this type that were basicly "garbage" after years spent on the ground as storage sheds.
Mid-Continent now has an example of a narrow gauge C&NW boxcar to display, and the general public doesn't care that this isn't actually C&NW narrow gauge boxcar #10.

Boyd




ddg14@attbi.com

> 2) there was another piece of equipment
> visible in the TV reports, a horse-drawn
> steam fire engine. Guess I'm not being
> allowed to assess damage to asomething I may
> know nothing about.... but it sure reminded
> me of a Matchbox toy car I stepped on in my
> youth......

I didn't even know they had one; guess it is too late to ask for details now. :(

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steam Vehicles
james1@pernet.net

> I didn't even know they had one; guess it is
> too late to ask for details now. :(

Not quite. I don't have the specifics on it handy, but when I get them I'll tell you. And there are two or three good fire apparatus collections and two fire museums in town. I would safely wager that this piece can be at least set right and restored by someone or another.

lner4472@bcpl.net

I don't have a picture to show, but I think any wooden rail car can be fixed/replicated.

look at the Monterey and Salinas combine at State Museum of CA. It was an 1874 car that was taken apart and all the wooden parts used for patterns to build a new car.

We are talking here about the museum of the first railroad in the United States and the collection of the oldest artifacts that go with it.

And a question? Nobody has mentioned that Nova Scotia passenger coach in there, How did it fare after the roof came down?

ted_miles@nps.gov

> There's another one of those cars
> still intact and badly in need of
> restoration inside the Museum's Restoration
> Shop.

I recall an old C&O coach that was with C&O 377 when it was operating on a tourist line in Toledo, OH. I believe the car came to the B&O Museum with C&O 377. Is this the coach referred to above, now in the car shop building? Or is the C&O car yet another wooden coach?

Please excuse my ignorance of the proper names of the following items: what is the status of the two wooden passenger coaches that I recall the museum displaying with a "Martin Van Buren" bunting. I always assumed those were repros, perhaps made for the 1927 celebrations, but don't know for sure. They are seen in the picture I've linked.


intersys@insystem.com

> I recall an old C&O coach that was with
> C&O 377 when it was operating on a
> tourist line in Toledo, OH. I believe the
> car came to the B&O Museum with C&O
> 377. Is this the coach referred to above,
> now in the car shop building? Or is the
> C&O car yet another wooden coach?

I can't guarantee precisely which car is which, but the only wooden car matching your description appears to be C&O wooden combine 409, ex-Hocking Valley Ry, built 1890. It was placed outside under that metal roof that covers radial tracks outside the roundhouse along the east side of the Museum. It's not very well protected (the roof is quite high) and is showing the ravages of weathering. I would personally rate it a high priority for emergency stabilization or cocooning, as it literally appears to be coming apart at the seams.


lner4472@bcpl.net

> And a question? Nobody has mentioned that
> Nova Scotia passenger coach in there, How
> did it fare after the roof came down?

Thought I did. Oh, well.

Fine and dandy, no actual damage from the fall but was exposed to snow for a while.


lner4472@bcpl.net