Have we lost track of this philosophy since the creation of homeland security?

Is it naieve to assume that, without evidence of theft, that the item offered was in fact acquired ethically in the first place?

If we run across the Strasburg plates, no question we should raise a stink - but "generic" sets of horns? Lunkenheimer whistles which were sold for use on many different kinds of steam powered machinery?

Sorry, I don't believe most of the stuff out there was "liberated" illicitly. FWIW, once something is scrapped, written off, dumpstered, or similarly removed from the list of assets it seems fair game to me - the principle of salvage is involved here as well. If it makes you feel better, leave a couple dollars taped to the side of the dumpster.

I'd like to see us all collaborate more effectively about passing the word on stolen items and sharing information on specific questionable things which we may be offered. I don't believe that many of us on this list would ever entertain the idea of stealing from each other, railroads in general, or trafficing in known stolen merchandise. But to go so far in the other direction may also prevent us from obtaining for preservation or use many items which weren't illicitly acquired and could provide a lot of benefit.

Dave

> Has anyone ever contacted a RR in advance
> and asked if they can have items which are
> being discarded? That would be an
> appropriate way to handle it.

Hell, yes. I do all the time. It can be something as simple as a switch list for the day or as big as a locomotive. <:-)

Typically I don't want the items myself--I'm trying to get them to donate elsewhere or sell to raise $$ for a nonprofit. And you would be amazed at the response I have gotten. One time I was offered the right to take six HUGE one-piece cast-iron crossbucks that had to be replaced anyway before the trackage was reopened. I never got a chance to get there with enough heavy equipment to do so (one of those signs could kill me if I tried it solo); several were stolen later. The line's operators were peeved; they basically remarked "we would have GIVEN them to whoever asked if they had asked; but right now somebody's probably making big bucks selling stolen property at a train show."

Sometimes even asking doesn't help. I begged the operators of one ex-PRR line for YEARS to let me liberate an original PRR oval crossing sign on their line for local preservation (unlike all the other ones that turn up in PRR turf, this one was the last of the original design on the first line upon which such signs were installed experimentally). They put me off for years. Finally they e-mailed me looking for pictures of said sign that they could take to the police to report it stolen. You can imagine how many obscenities I bellowed at them before I replied.



lner4472@bcpl.net

Hi,

I would like to make a suggestion; That is (if possible)if there could be a posting site for stolen articles or items (that can be verified by police reports, ect...) that would be accessable to all for checking if there is a case in which some one comes accross an item or itemsle that one suspects of being stolen, or of some one who you suspect has some hot items.

For example, in a local motorcycle magizine, there is a a column that is dedicated to stolen property, and posting under this heading is free, but with strick guidelines.

On the otherhand, posting losses at this site, could open the door to show whch museums are vunerable to easy theft.

Karl Johnson
MUNI Ry.

karl_johnson@ci.sf.ca.us

Alex, you have not stolen anything, morally or legally! Legally, when a person or company declares something has no value and should be disposed of, the item becomes the property of the next person to lay claim to it. This is known in all court cases of employees stealing " trash- garbage ".


rpetersen@blast.net

After reading this thread, several diverse throughts come to my mind.

1. Story heard this weekend at the museum I'm a member and board member at: A member of the diesel maintenance crew stopped by a garage sale in the local community and bought an airhorn for $5. He brought it to the museum and as he and the diesel maintenance foreman were noting it was just like Ol' number __'s horn the looked up and saw that that horn was missing.

2. Special agents for one of the major railroads showed up at a regional swap meet a few years ago and seized all the railroad switch locks of their railroad that they could find. Their position was that the railroad had never sold one of these and these were stolen items they were retrieving.

3. Many museums and archieves in the larger preservation world have realized that they have to acknowledge that some items are left on their "door steps." And these items have no provenience except "found on the doorstep." I think that many a curator, registrar, or museum director has had to search out the owner of a item that shows signs of theft.

4. I have heard professional Archivists say that some collections of paperwork were initially obtained by "dumpster diving."

As I say, diverse throughts.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

Anyone can justify anything in their own mind............

>>>"Has anyone ever contacted a RR in advance and asked if they can have items which are being discarded? That would be an appropriate way to handle it."

That is indeed an appropriate way to do it, and if you are both courteous and persistant, you may get results.

Back in 1998, when the LIRR was redoing most of their crossings, I wrote to inquire about getting one of the old GRS Ex-Semaphore Gate mechs. After a few letters and a few phone calls back and forth, I recieved a letter saying (in a nutshell) "Here's where the stuff is...as-is, where-is....stop by and see the yard master and he'll show you the stuff."

So, for $75, I rented a truck equiped with a hydrolic claw, and went there on a Saturday morning to the signal scrap heap, and basically said "give me that, that, that, that, and that". All legal. 100%

There were times when I would ask the signal maintainers if I could dumpster-dive at Nassau tower in Mineola, and was granted permission to "take what I wanted". A few years later, while taking pics of a track crew clearing an iced up crossing, one of the guys came up to me and said "Hey, weren't you the guy from Mineola?" "Yeah, that was me." "HA! Hey, one of our guys over there is a signal collector also, wanna talk to him?" "Sure!" The signal maintainer who I was introduced to has since become a good friend.

Legal signal aquisition and new-found friends. the moral of this story? Do it right, and you'll get results. DO it wrong, and you're making it worse for EVERYONE...not just yourself.



ordway1440@aol.com