I have a question regarding how to strip layers of paint to get to a paint color or decorative pattern underneath layers of paint. We have CA&E 315, a 1909 Kuhlman car in our collection at the Rockhill Trolley Museum and we are starting (again) on the restoration of the car, We need to strip the interior ceiling panels to reveal a pattern that was applied around the edges of the ceiling panels. We have recently obtained an interior builders photo and while it is a terrific image, it will not give us the details to reproduce this pattern.

Besides the answer of “very carefully” how does one go about stripping layers of paint to reach a layer that you desire without destroying the layer that you need? Are there special tools recommended or a procedure? It appears that there are two different materials used for the ceiling panels, different in the smoking compartments and the coach section. In the smoking section, the paint is cracking and getting the pattern may be a bit easier as it may be able to carefully scrape the paint away. The paint in the coach section ceiling is adhered much better (unfortunately) to the ceiling panels.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Joel Salomon

If there were some reliable way to strip paint down to the desired level, I would have liked to know about it. Realistically, I just don't see how that could be possible, unless the layers were completely different, like shellac over spar varnish. But I'm afraid it's just a matter of picking away carefully, inch by inch.

If the two compartments have different materials for the ceiling, that means that one of them was replaced by the railroad, probably with masonite. This might have been done due to a small fire or other damage in one compartment. I'd assume it was the smoker, and that's why the the interior upper sash were no longer there when you got the car. In that case, I would expect that the smoker ceiling won't have any of the stenciling that you're looking for.

Try oven cleaner. I remember using this to remove paint one layer at a time. try it on a test piece first to be on the safe side.

It was not uncommon for the original panel to have been varnished after the final decoration was put on as a protective coating. If yours is made this way, you can carefully soften the varnish with a heat gun and remove the layers above the varnish with a putty knife. This has worked well for me. If this isn't the case, your best bet may be to remove a panel and, on the bench, use a combination of scraping loose chips and sanding through adhered layers until you gradually reveal the original design. In either case, plenty of ventilation and dust masks are a good idea.

you may have to be slow and meticulous, dab on a qtip or lightly wet a rag.

25 years ago, I stripped some Victorian house window sash. I expected to find a varnished hardwood, but instead found a faux wood grain finish that was painted on.

I believe I used a gel paint remover. It would lay on top of the paint layer, and not soak underneath the paint layer. I could scrape off the upper layers of paint without disturbing the lower paint layers. The fact that the paints are applied many years apart, and are likely different formulations, also leaves a defined boundary between the layers.

A friend of mine was involved in restoring the St. Joe, AR MNA depot. A local paint dealer (Sherman Williams I think) had no problem peeling through the layers and matching the original paint. So, try a few local paint dealers.

perhaps take some chips off a near area or experiment differrent paint remover solutions, probably "layer/layer" the top paint off slowly.

You should start with a spot that will allow you to see and document the various layers that were applied...this is all a part of telling the story. To do this you take a square of sand paper and methodically make a circle...working around and around for hours if needed until you have an area where the center is almost bare wood and the area around it will reveal bands of the various paint layers. You can then hit it with mineral spirits to rejuvenate the colors and then document with photography. It will make for a nice story to show visitors.

To remove a few layers (without removing ALL of the layers) use one of these new strippers that do NOT contain harsh chemicals...like the citrus stripper or the soy based stripper. Alter the method for use: Apply a coat and then peel the finish away as soon as it bubbles...do not wait "hours" or "over night" like the instructions might indicate.

Just employ a lot of patience now...seldom can you find somebody that can "hold back"...people doing this kind of work often refuse to be careful and instead want to "John Wayne" through the layers and strip it all the way down to the wood...so find the right person for the job. After they develop the feel for the job they should be able to get you exactly what you want.

You may find some areas are just not workable and will require some different approach.

T7

I work at an historic (1928) theatre that has murals, and also had an elaborate paint finish as the part of the Art Deco detailing. The city had an art conservator come in and strip the layers of paint down to see if the mural is restorable (it is!) and what colors and where the decorative details were in selected spaces. She worked small areas at at time, applying diluted paint stripper, and neutralizing almost immediately so she could go down one layer at a time. She's done a lot of this, so has developed "the touch" it requires.

To find details of former colour schemes/lettering under layers of paint, we have used very fine grade abrasive "wet & dry" paper, which, although it takes many hours of delicate work to remove the layers of paint, the results can be startling, and you find the unexpected!

We have a former Cambridge double deck horse car in our Museum collection which was similar to the ones used in Ipswich and which is currently undergoing restoration to its Cambridge Street Tramways condition. It had been withdrawn in 1914 and the downstairs body section was used as a garden shed up to the late 1970's/early 1980's, eventually finding its way to us about 7 years ago.

We needed to reserach the Cambridge livery for the restoration and one side appeared to have outlines of lettering under some paintwork + remains of an advertisement, so a couple of our members started the labourious task of rubbing down the paint applied when it was a shed..........



The advert is fairly obvious in this picture, but note the state of the panels below the windows.

Careful rubbing revealed the Cambridge livery and lettering.........



and this circular device appeared with part of a "7" visible which gave us the Cambridge fleet number



However, underneath the remains of the fleet number, we then discovered the City coat of arms of Bradford, in the north of England which was totally unexpected !

As I can only add three attachments, I'll continue the story in the next post!

Once the rubbing down was complete, we ended up with this.......



The gold "Cambridge Street Tramways" lettering is clearly visible, as is the circular device with the Bradford coat of arms in it (which overlaps the "Street" lettering).
The advertisement on the bottom panels is much clearer now (although this picure is of the other side of the car to that shown in the picture in the previous post.)

All of these panels have now been removed and conserved for display next to the restored vehicle.

The Bradford crest proved that Cambridge bought it secondhand, but further finds have more or less worked out its history as follows...

Built in 1880 as a single deck car by Starbuck of Birkenhead for Bath Tramways Company (either fleet #3 or 6).
Sold to the Bradford and Shelf Tramway around 1884 and used as a trailer behind a steam "dummy". Whilst there it was converted to a double decker.
Sold to Cambridge in 1894 as their #7 and ran until the system closed in 1914.

Most of the above would never have come to light without the painstaking rubbing down of the paintwork.

We had pretty good success removing about 10 layers of latex paint from an industrial Plymouth loco by mostly using heat guns and putty knives over a winter. We weren't worried about trying to save the base coat, just remove the top 1/8" of paint. If you try this approach I'd suggest using plastic scrapers, or brass, and rounding the corners of the scraper so it doesn't bite in.

Why they used latex on steel is something I still haven't figured out a decade later.

Nick