are you suggesting that our presentation was poor?

There are 2 IC streamlined heavyweight chairs at the museum:

#2691, 52 seats, built in 1918* by Pullman** in Lot #4532 as 88 seat coach #2234, reconfigured in 1937 to #2907 with 82 seats, modernized at an unknown date as #2808 with an unknown number of seats, streamlined in 1947 as #2691, sold in July 1972 to CRI&P for MofW use as #196691, acquired (when??; circa 1980?) by the National NYC RR Museum, which applied an unknown name to the car at an unknown date. Does anyone know the name which was applied? Thanks in advance!

*1918 according to IC diagram; museum's website says 1914.

**Built by Pullman according to diagram; museum's website says Standard Steel.

#2694, 48 seats, built in 1918* by an unknown builder** as wide-vestibule chair #3664 with an unknown number of seats, streamlined in 1948 as #2694, sold in July 1972 to CRI&P for MofW use as #196692, acquired (when??; circa 1980?) by the National NYC RR Museum, which applied the name Elkhart River to the car at an unknown date.

*1918 according to IC diagram; museum's website says 1914.

**Builder is not listed on diagram; museum's website says Standard Steel.

Sources:

1. Museum's rolling stock page: https://www.elkhartindiana.org/department/division.php?structureid=154

2. IC passenger car diagram folio of June 1952

3. IC passenger car roster pages: http://icrr.net/passenger.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Happy Easter Monday!

Jeff, yes, your 2716 announcement brought an AWFUL lot of bashing and over-the-top criticism, most of which I personally found disturbing and disappointing. I hope, and believe you do, know nothing I wrote here was directed at you or the 2716 project. Your presentation has been superior in my opinion and very professional. We all could take a lesson or two from your group's presentation.

Soups, I, and probably others, have no idea who you are or have any idea which announcement you are referring to. My apologies if I should.

Sincerely,

Rob Gardner

Fixed that for you. <;-)

The problem is, indeed, that standard written English ISN'T logical and orderly like science. Properly mastering the whimsical art form that it is (as opposed to trying to create an orderly, "rational" language like Esperanto) does require heavy immersion in as much of it as possible, and people either can't or won't do that today. Mind you, the same problems arise in other languages as well, so English--one of the most "mongrelized" of languages in its modern form--isn't alone in this regard.

An effective communications agent, one who not only spells correctly and uses grammar properly, but knows what to say and what not to say and why and when, is as vitally important to an organization such as ours as the guy who knows how to fire or fix the steam locomotive.

I think there are going to be more answers about her condition in the weeks to come. I'm hopeful. However, I am very pessimistic due to knowing a bit about what lies behind that firebox door (hense my earlier comments) and also knowing the real people involved in getting some answers the community has been asking or wanting to ask about the 3001. I guess you could say when we opened her up in January 2010, it sparked some interest.

I know that 3001 has some advancements over earlier classes of Mohawks, but I'm curious as to whether the 3001 is in better shape than the 2933 (assuming that one of them would be an actual candidate for operation)? I certainly would love to see a big NYC engine back in operation, it's a shame there aren't more to chose from.

Finderskeepers -

I recall reading that when the 2933 was "found" hiding behind some roundhouse somewhere on the system, the New York Central said that she had a bad boiler, then quickly donated her to MofT. I have often wondered if that "bad boiler" was just an excuse and that her quick donation was so that the Central didn't have to listen to the clamor of fans and the public, which had turned out in droves to ride the "Reading Rambles" at that point in time.

Would be interesting to know if anyone has ever done a mechanic inspection of her down there in St. Louis.

Les

There is a lot of total misinformation on the 2933 on the Internet and it should nearly all be disregarded. I recently had an article on it published in the Central Headlight, the magazine of the NYC System Historical Society. It wasn't hidden behind a wall of boxes in any roundhouse and there are photos of it at Selkirk out in the open. It was put on display several times with #999 which also was kept at Selkirk. It also wasn't pulled out of the roundhouse during a fire to save it as only a small portion of the large building was on fire. It was donated by Mr. Perlman of the NYC in March 1962 and presented to the Museum of Transportation at St. Louis Union Station along with S-Motor #113 on June 15, 1963. There was nothing about this that was done in a hurry, in secret, or in any manner but out in the open. There was extensive press coverage and the NYC hosted a luncheon after the ceremony.

The 2933 had its asbestos lagging up until about 10 years ago. (Ron could probably correct me on when exactly the lagging was removed.)

The issue with the lagging is that when it becomes wet, it holds the moisture against the boiler shell, pitting the steel. I'm sure that this has happened to the 2933, although a thorough inspection has not been done.

Oooooowww! I had occasion to be on top of Soo Line 2442, the 2-8-0 in the park in Marshfield, WI, when the local "chief fan and caretaker" was telling me how the old timers told him the engine "Just came out of the shop, and was ready to light a fire in." It also stood in the park unprotected with it's lagging on for almost forty years before it was finally stripped because the jacketing had rusted through along the belly. The welt on the first boiler course was rusted so badly that it was hard to see the edges. The rivets looked like staybolt ends. The was a large pattern of deep pitting on the first course that looked like a saddle blanket running from the dome back, and continuing on the top of the firebox.

I had to gently break the news, "That was in a time long ago, in a galaxy far, far away."

Dennis -

Is the 2442 the Consolidation that went up to the Iron Horse Central?


Les

No, Les, that's the 2425 from Enderlin, ND, which is a smaller engine, but not likely to be in much better shape.

I seem to vaguely recall that the St Louis Museum's Mohawk got a look over when the St Louis Steam Association first formed (late 80s?) and was looking for a steam engine to restore. Frisco 1522 was found to be a better candidate, the Mohawk was deemed too far gone (although it has since had cosmetic repairs and a paint job).

Steve