More trouble in paradise (or in rail preservation land!)

Heavenrich · **Joined:** Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am **Posts:** 630

robertmacdowell wrote:

PMC wrote:

#2 nonprofits run into some entanglements dealing in inherently for-profit trades. They pay "Unrelated Business Income” tax (UBIT) at tax rates somewhat higher than normal corporate tax rates. They are allowed to deduct some expenses of that business, but not as many as a standalone for-profit could. It makes your tax forms very complex and ugly, and mind you, the 990 is already the most complicated tax form on earth.

Dave wrote:

So you pay the taxes on the unrelated income and plow the rest back. What's the problem? Hypothetical in this case so far anyhow.....

True that... UBIT is a nice problem to have.

.

UBI tax rates start out relatively low and are on just net income, basically with any directly related expenses deductible.... but if you have too much UBI you risk losing your 501c3 tax exemption.

If that happens,the total amount of tax may still be small, but getting into a situation where donations to your organization not tax deductible is a problem to be avoided.

Bob H

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

dinwitty wrote:

robertmacdowell wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote:

Sounds like people can make MORE money storing cars, and that's incompatible with running trains.

Storing cars on one linear track doesn't work well, because it's rather difficult to pull a string of cars that's too far down the stack.

But HVRM in North Judson proper has lots of parallel tracks in town, 3 miles of them, but a need to run trains on a single track.

Each has what the other would need. That says "work together".

yeppers, instead of being "stuck up"

Gents -

Sounds good, but the recent string of storage cars wouldn't have fit on the double track and the CKIN half of the interchange track in North Judson. Incidentally, as of last Saturday, those storage cars were no longer on the line between La Crosse and English Lake and the line was thus clear, but the red flag and derail, remained in place.

Les

Dennis Storzek · **Posted:** Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:49 am

Modern unit trains are surprisingly long. The three trains IRM was storing over the winter (405 cars) totaled close to 28,000 feet in length - over four miles. Not many places have that much secondary track.

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2876

An update, I'm not sure how this will affect HVRM:
http://www.wkvi.com/2016/07/lake-state- ... -railroad/

EWrice · **Joined:** Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:14 am **Posts:** 367

If Lake State is going to be running freight, that could be a good thing for hvrr. They seem to be down to earth and somewhat easy to work with up in MI. I do hope it all works out for everybody.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

Quote:

Lake State to Operate Indiana Short Line
Lake State Railway will operate a former Chesapeake & Ohio line in North Judson, Indiana, that is also used by a tourist train operation.

The city’s town council recently voted to lease the track to LSR and negotiations are being conducted to allow the Hoosier Valley Railroad
to have access to the track.
Those negotiations are expected to be completed by the middle of August.
The line had previously been operated by the Chesapeake & Indiana Railroad.
Earlier this year, the Hoosier Valley had curtailed its operations due to what it described as a legal dispute over control of the rail line.
The route is a portion of the former C&O of Indiana, which extended from Chicago to Cincinnati.
CSX abandoned most of the route and portions of it have been converted to a hiking and biking trail that is named after Amtrak’s Cardinal, which once traveled the route.

looks like it will be good.

Steve A W · **Posted:** Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:45 am

Are there any updates or, hopefully, good news?
Has the transition happened and are things smoothing out?
I haven't heard if it got worked out and if HVRM is back to
it's full route.
Thanks for any updates.

Steve A W

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

Steve -

Last I heard, the agreement between Lake State and the Town of North Judson was still to be signed. As of this past Saturday when I left the museum for home, CKIN still had storage cars on the main line between English Lake and La Crosse and the flag and derail are still in place preventing museum trains from running on that segment of the line. The museum has made plans to operate their special trains this fall based on no access to La Crosse.

Les

Steve A W · **Posted:** Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:55 am

Les
Thanks for the reply.
That stinks that you can't make it to La Crosse.
Any idea what the hold up is?

Steve A W

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

For the record, the situation has not changed. There is still no signed agreement between the Town of North Judson and the new operator.

Les

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

And spotted earlier today, was this string of 14 MQRX covered hoppers parked on the main line. A much longer string of MQRX cars, along with a few box cars, were parked on the outskirts of La Crosse. Income continues for the operator!

Les

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

came across the RailChicago

unedited text as copied

Quote:

1. Surface Transportation Board Rules in North Judson's Favor
Posted by: "Dennis Parejko" railchicago@sbcglobal.net railchicago@sbcglobal.net
Date: Fri Jun 2, 2017 7:32 am ((PDT))

Surface Transportation Board Rules in North Judson's Favor WKVI InformationCenter June 2, 2017 The ongoing dispute between the Town of North Judson and Chesapeake and Indiana Railroad Company has put the brakes on the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum’s excursions past English Lake. Photo providedAn attempt by the Chesapeake and Indiana Railroad Company (CKIN) to force the town of North Judson to sell its rail line has
been rejected by the Surface Transportation Board.
CKIN operated the short-line railroad under an arrangement with the town for 10 years.

Their agreement also allowed the North Judson-based Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum to operate excursion trains on the line.
During that time, freight rail transportation on the line “grew more than eightfold” between 2005 and 2015.

By the numbers it went from 506 to 4,312 cars.

Co-Alliance, LLP is the primary shipper on the line.
In the spring of 2015, North Judson officials advised CKIN they would not be renewing the 2004 contract and would be seeking a
new operator at the end of the year.

CKIN refused to terminate operations, and both parties entered into a mediation agreement.

CKIN officials contend in their filing the “spirit of the agreement” was that the town would lease the line to Co-Alliance for a new
10-year term, and Co-Alliance would then contract with CKIN to remain as the operator.
Instead the Town of North Judson chose Michigan-based Lake State Railway to lease the line after soliciting requests for proposals.

CKIN claims the RFP process put the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum’s needs to access the line over those of freight customers.
Based on that, CKIN sought to require the town to sell the line to them under Board-supervised negotiations.

The railroad operator argues the freight rail service was only a secondary consideration to the town.
However, the Surface Transportation Board pointed out the town has “clearly demonstrated that it has met that obligation” by significantly
increasing freight traffic on the line since taking over operations.
North Judson is a town in Wayne Township, Starke County, Indiana

It seems to me the only issue was their storing hopper cars on the main, which is why the derail. Are they gone? (hoppers)

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

dinwitty wrote:

It seems to me the only issue was their storing hopper cars on the main, which is why the derail. Are they gone? (hoppers)

dinwitty -

No, the issue of storing hopper cars on the main is NOT the only issue. I wish I could figure a way to get the 8 page STB May 31, 2017 decision posted here on RyPN, but I can't. If anyone is interested, check out STB Docket No. AB55 (Sub. No. 643X) for the full story.

Les

Larry Lovejoy · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:21 pm

I've no connection with this, but here's the STB ruling.

https://www.stb.gov/decisions/readingro ... /45789.pdf

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

Larry -

Thanks very much for posting it.

Les