Hi folks. I am currently researching information to create a railroad-themed exhibit at a local museum in the Catskills. After speaking with the Delaware Public Archives and coming up with a (mostly) dead end, I thought I might try a broad approach.

I am seeking drawings and/or blueprints for the narrow-gauge rolling stock built by Jackson & Sharp in the early 1880's for a number of small railroads in the Catskill Mountain area of New York State. Many of you may be familiar with them as the "Rip Van Winkle" railroads.

Would anyone know of a source for these scale drawings/blueprints? I am looking to build period-correct and highly accurate models for display. I am also seeking drawings (Sanborn Insurance, etc.) for the various stations and related structures on these lines.

Thank you!

Chris Cardinal

Hi Chris,

I wish I could help you with the drawings you're looking for, but you may be aware that four of the passenger cars you are asking about survive today on the White Pass & Yukon: two (WP&Y numbers 218 and 220) built by J&S in 1881 for the Stony Clove & Catskill Mountain, and two (WP&Y numbers 222 and 224) built by J&S in 1883 for the Kaaterskill RR. So, if the documents don't materialize then it may actually be possible to take measurements from the cars themselves!

Good luck in your research,

-Philip Marshall

I would suggest contacting the Hagley Museum in Wilmington, where Jackson & Sharp was based.

Tom

Thanks Philip, this is quite helpful. I actually have a source for WP&Y drawings.

The plot thickens! LOL

C.

In addition to the coaches Philip identified, one of the arch roof coaches from the Catskill Mountain Railway still survives in service on the Huckleberry RR. It was sold to Ferrocarril Unidos de Yucatan in 1920 (becoming their #109, I believe). From there it was sold to Early West Railways of Pomona CA. That RR was never built, but I was told, the coach eventually made its way to the Huckleberry in Flint, MI.
"Source - "The Ulster & Delaware ... Railroad through the Catskills" by Gerald M. Best"

I've seen and ridden in the car, it sure looks like the genuine article.

Brilliant. Thank you!

Thanks Tom, they've helped me before.

C.

Of course the D&RG purchased a number of J&S coaches in the early 1880's... the most original would likely be 292 on the Cumbres and Toltec.

In addition to the information at the Hagley, the Smithsonian holds the J&S engineering book (a notebook with cars built, with some details but virtually no drawings) for the late 1880's

The Delaware Public Archives has the J&S photo collection, with much if not all on line...

Randy

Shamelessly copied

Thanks Randy. The Delaware Archive lives here:

http://delaware.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ ... ort/ad/asc

The Sanborn fire maps only show the footprint, placement, construction material, and information on whether there is a boiler or furnace in a building, but are still pretty interesting. Many libraries have digital black and white copies which can be viewed by card holders on the library's Internet site, but the libraries typically subscribe only for the set for their own state. I've found some libraries where anyone with a library card from anywhere in the state can access the files. The maps also tend to be restricted to the built up area of a city, so may show the RR infrastructure in the city, but not outside of it.

I think it would be really interesting to examine photos and plans and see what specific parts of the coaches are original to first construction.

Hi Dick. I'll take just a footprint measurement and work from the photos I have to get "close enough". I'm fussy about details, but know when not to be obsessive.

Chris

Thanks, but modified beyond recognition. I am fortunate to have 2 photos taken upon their arrival at the White Pass. You wouldn't believe these are the same cars.

Chris

Chris

In addition to the Hagley Museum, the Smithsonian has additional early order records that Hagley doesn't possess in their files.

Although I don't have any files on the Catskill narrow gauge cars in my files, I do have original erection photos of Ferrocarriles Uniudos Yucatan 3 ft gauge coaches. I also have the specs and drawings of first class, third class, and baggage-mail cars with trucks, seats, and lamp drawings from a March 1902 order that look very similar to the late 1880s coaches that they made. I the July 1903 shop order, detailed specs, and drawings for Ferrocarriles Uniudos Yucatan 3 ft gauge coaches for 2 first class cars, 2 second class cars, and 2 third class cars. The shop order is very detailed on materials, colors, trucks, seats, finishes,etc. Contact me if any of this data would help in your project.

Fred Heilich