Wood passenger car needs home or else!

Cjbdiesel · **Joined:** Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:17 pm **Posts:** 96

JR May wrote:

For anyone interested, I plan to have a look at the car perhaps this week, shooting for Wednesday afternoon. PM me is you are interested in attending with me.

By my current understanding, and this is only my understanding, the indoor space that the car now occupies will be lost soon. Tied to that, the crew that had been working on the car has either retired, died, or moved out of state. By the sounds of it, there is space outdoors for the car at the WCRHA (I’d need to confirm that), but without a local champion, the car will no doubt meet its demise at the hands of mother nature. Being that I am not far from the WC during the week, I am thinking that perhaps I can be that local champion for the car which will no doubt need to be cocooned in some fashion to preserve it. I'm willing to take that on, but some help would be appreciated.

If the idea was acceptable to the WCRHA, I’d look to develop some locals who may want to work on it, essentially re-creating the team that original took on the car. I’m a big one for the idea of that "simple act of preservation" so that would be my initial goal.

The question that looms in front of anyone looking at this car is “why bother?” What makes this car worth saving? In truth I have struggled with this question and came up with the following points, both positive and negative:

1) Its a survivor having been built in 1889 and in relative complete shape. Built in nearby Delaware by J&S. It retains its original all wood structure to include the main frame.

2) It has ties to the earliest days of Steamtown and Nelson Blount which is of interest to me at least, perhaps to include some distant involvement via Edgar Mead who I got to know via Pine Creek.

3) Built as a coach for the Quebec, Montmorency and Charlevoix Railway (QM&C) it was later re-trucked and used as a trailer when the Quebec Railway Light & Power electrified the QM&C. So, while it has a history as a conventional coach, it spent much of its life as a trailer. Trolleys and interurbans tend to interest me as much as steam. As it stands now, it may make a nice addition to a trolley museum as a way to quickly increase passenger capacity.

4) On the down side, there is no real US historic RR connection other than being built in Delaware and the early Steamtown connection.

5) Again, on the down side, its lack of a steel frame seems to limit its usability by various tourist operations. Use as a trailer may be the best option for it.

6) The round top roof is reminiscent of an earlier time in coach construction, but then causes it to lack a certain charm that many desire.

7) It has survived ownership by the National Park Service/Steamtown. Take a look at the current RyPN Steamtown scrapping topic/discussion and this is actually one damn lucky car. In short, if not for the WCRHA this car would not be with us today. In my mind, the work done by the WCRHA should not be wasted. It needs to be embraced and the work they have done taken to the next level.

So, that is where I am coming from. Not so much, buy it and move it to a new location as much as re-generating a group of people willing to take it on, replacing those who saved it originally. Again, I have no confirmation that this is acceptable by the WCRHA. Just exploring the options here.

Again, send me an email if interested in helping.

J.R. May
jrmay@monmouth.com

I can't come out Wednesday, but if you have any chance of working on this car, I'll send you a PM come that time. Keep us informed. I'm within 20 miles of this car.

- Christian B.

btrw · **Joined:** Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:49 am **Posts:** 67

The other Quebec Railway Light & Power coach is #102 which was a first class coach. It was donated to the Delaware Historical Society in Wilmington, DE in 2005 and rebuilt as part of The Challenge Program. At the time it was in worse shape than the #124 and has basically been rebuilt from the floor up. They have it stored at the old Jackson & Sharp plant area in Wilmington.

JR May · **Posted:** Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:16 pm

I did visit the coach today and came away with a very favorable impression. For its age, its in fairly good shape and includes a vast amount of timbers and custom miller siding along with other material.

It sits on Taylor Electric Truck Co trucks. If anything, do the trucks have value in the trolley world?
J.R.

Dave · **Posted:** Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:51 pm

I could use them...... so, yes.

o anderson · **Posted:** Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:49 pm

This is interesting. The Taylor trucks are rare but are wood-beamed light standard gauge passenger trucks even rarer? It would probably be best to keep the trucks and car together until historical replicas or replacements could be acquired.

That said, there are a number of Taylor truck types. The following 12 cars are in need of Taylor trucks according to PNAERC:

In Maryland,
Hagerstown and Frederick #5 (home built, 1920) could use some kind of Taylor truck
Hagerstown and Frederick #62 (Brill, 1917) could use some kind of Taylor truck
Hagerstown and Frederick #150 (1918, Southern Car) needs some kind of Taylor truck
At NYMT,
New York State Railways #1402 (Kuhlman, 1904) needs Taylor HLB trucks
At Saskatchewan Railway Museum,
Saskatoon Municipal Railway #203 (Cincinnati, 1918) needs Taylor RH trucks
Saskatoon Municipal Railway #40 (Preston, 1911) needs some kind of Taylor truck
At IRM,
Chicago Surface Lines #2846 (SCCRy 1907) Needs Taylor HSB2 trucks
At Seashore,
Rochester and Sodus Bay #113 (1899, Jackson and Sharp) needs Taylor EH trucks.
In Oklahoma,
Pittsburg County Railway #23 (Jewett, 1903) could use some kind of Taylor truck
In Missouri,
Kansas City, Clay County & St. Joe #54 (Cincinnati, 1913) could use Taylor MCB trucks
In Alberta,
Lethbridge Municipal Railway #8 (Preston, 1912) could use some kind of Taylor truck
In Texas,
Cincinnati and Lake Erie 646 (Cincinnati, 1930) could use Taylor MCB trucks

The big · **Posted:** Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:52 pm

I am canadian and see this car need hope i just think to get a call to the canadian railway museum in Delson for see the options

Someone has a link with West Chester Historic Railroad Association?

JR May · **Posted:** Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:08 am

Contact via email is fheilich@msn.com or you can try me as well at jrmay@monmouth.com

J.R. May

JR May · **Posted:** Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:07 am

There is a possibility of assembling a work party the weekend of 10 September to secure the car with plywood and prep it to be rolled to a storage track. This would be somewhat quick and sloppy, really to provide some sense of security to the car. If anyone is available to help, please email me at jrmay@monmouth.com or call 732-330-1876

Thanks,
J.R.

btrw · **Joined:** Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:49 am **Posts:** 67

It doesn't look good for this 1889 Jackson & Sharp coach as time is running out. After the comments about Steamtown scrapping several wood cars last week and people talked of saving them. The West Chester Railroad Heritage Assoc has been trying to find a home for this coach since 2012 and in earnest over the last four months on Facebook, Railswap, and Railway Preservation News. We have had several strong inquiries, but unfortunately we only have 10 days to find a home it.

Fred Heilich

JR May · **Posted:** Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:03 am

Short update on the effort to save this J&S coach. It is currently in a SEPTA building in dry storage. Material to do much of the restoration work are with the car and it is available to someone/some group who has a use for the car. So, far we are looking at perhaps three good leads, but nothing has solidified as of yet.

The car must be removed from the Septa building by Friday, 16 September. The expectation is that Septa will take ownership and scrap the car to include its trucks.

The WCRHA has no room for it in their primary storage area, but did offer a spot on a siding along their tracks. As this is a remote spot, a good deal of prep work would need to be done before the car is moved to this spot. This coming weekend would be the last weekend to do such work. Plywood for the windows and tarps are already on site ready to secure the car. Although we have put the word out for on-site help, no one has come through with an absolute yes. I find that disappointing. That’s not just a jab at RyPN, but also at Facebook and such.

As the WCRHA siding location is probably not workable, we have looked at other options. I have offered to pay rent for a better location, but West Chester space is just not available. Another option is to truck the car to some safe haven. Certainly doable, but is cash dependent. Roughly speaking, the cost to move it even an hour or so away would be in the $10K range.

So, not sure what to say here. This is a situation that has been fairly well documented over some number of years, yet has not developed into a solution.
J.R. May

Cjbdiesel · **Joined:** Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:17 pm **Posts:** 96

You have two people willing to help this Saturday.

- Christian B.

JR May · **Posted:** Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:21 pm

PM just sent. Working options for a move of the car. Will keep you posted.
J.R.

PMC · **Joined:** Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm **Posts:** 2865

I have been networking it around but it doesn't quite fit for those I have contacted, even the parts should it end up that bad off.

JR May · **Posted:** Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:37 pm

At this point, we are good to go to work on the car on Saturday. PM me and I can provide the address.
Thanks all,
J.R.

JR May · **Posted:** Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:31 pm

We had a good work session today prepping the car for its move to a different location on the WC. Many thanks to those who came out, especially on such a hot humid day. If anyone is interested in helping out, again, please pm me or send me an email to jrmay@optonline.net

Having been all over the car today, it is remarkably solid. The amount of new materials that comes with the car is impressive.

Again, many thanks to those who came out today!
J.R.