Many postings about the "threat" of privatization at Texas State, hidden inside is mention of new boilers from a source in Houston.

I personally know of a matched pair of pacifics that could use new boilers. How many others out there are in similar straits?

If anybody from Texas State is listening, please write an article about the process from the decision to replace rather than repair, the design, construction, certification, costs, sources and experience with the new one now a few years into service.

If a new boiler can be built, certified and installed for 300K it isn't worth heavily repairing an old one in many cases. It isn't uncommon to build new boilers in the UK and down under. Texas State might be the innovator in the US.

Dave

> I personally know of a matched pair of
> pacifics that could use new boilers. How
> many others out there are in similar
> straits?

> If anybody from Texas State is listening,
> please write an article about the process
> from the decision to replace rather than
> repair, the design, construction,
> certification, costs, sources and experience
> with the new one now a few years into
> service.

> If a new boiler can be built, certified and
> installed for 300K it isn't worth heavily
> repairing an old one in many cases. It isn't
> uncommon to build new boilers in the UK and
> down under. Texas State might be the
> innovator in the US.

> Dave

If that "matched pair of Pacifics" are the two I think you're talking about, then a third one of the "set" might also be in the market for a new pressure vessel. Can you say "economy of scale"?

Since hearing about the new boiler for the ATSF 4-6-2, I have also been quite curious about all the details of such.

hpincus@mindspring.com

We at the South Simcoe Railway are in the process of having a new boiler constructed for our 4-4-0 #136 for exactly the reasons outlined below. We came to the determination that investing the funds for a new firebox, tube sheets, etc, etc, wasn't worth it, because in the end we'd still have a 90-year-old riveted boiler. Currently are completing the engineering work on the boiler. Expected cost is in the neighbourhood of CDN $175k (about US $120k) for the boiler itself, and we'll have a welded boiler that meets all current standards.

> If a new boiler can be built, certified and
> installed for 300K it isn't worth heavily
> repairing an old one in many cases. It isn't
> uncommon to build new boilers in the UK and
> down under. Texas State might be the
> innovator in the US.

> Dave


http://www.steamtrain.com

info@steamtrain.com

I love this thread as it espouses the kind of cooperation that benefits everyone. I have only one experience with trying to arrange cooperation between organizations with class sisters. In my case, one museum had one of the class running and the museum I was with had one of the class they were considering restoring.

Long story short, the one running was in need of some of the same parts that ours would require. I tried to get our management to consider a combined ordered to lower the cost. You'd have thought I suggested speaking to Martians. Ironically, today BOTH engines are cold, with finances being part of the reason.

So, it isn't that hard to imagine that owners of the FEC 4-6-2's and their twins might find some common ground - not just on boilers, mind you? The same could be said of other steam classes with multiple survivors. Even some static restorations could benefit from common purchasing.

Of course, this could apply to commonly needed items for DL&W MU cars, Beth Steel commuter coaches and so forth...

It's great to hear popel talking about it!

Rob



trains@robertjohndavis.com

Dave,

I believe L&RP (when it was still being published) carried an article on the Texas State Railroad. Seems like they had a new all-welded boiler built for their "Pershing" 2-8-0 several years ago.

I too would really like to see an article on this process. Dixon Boiler Works (in California?) had built locomotive boilers but they are now out of business according to the last information I had.

I have links to steam repair resources, including boiler fabricators, posted at the URL below (no profit to me, etc.). If anyone knows of others, please pass the info to me.

Good Steaming,
Hugh Odom

> Many postings about the "threat"
> of privatization at Texas State, hidden
> inside is mention of new boilers from a
> source in Houston.

> I personally know of a matched pair of
> pacifics that could use new boilers. How
> many others out there are in similar
> straits?

> If anybody from Texas State is listening,
> please write an article about the process
> from the decision to replace rather than
> repair, the design, construction,
> certification, costs, sources and experience
> with the new one now a few years into
> service.

> If a new boiler can be built, certified and
> installed for 300K it isn't worth heavily
> repairing an old one in many cases. It isn't
> uncommon to build new boilers in the UK and
> down under. Texas State might be the
> innovator in the US.

> Dave


Ultimate Steam Repair Links
whodom@awod.com

Add me to the list who'd be interested to see that article as well. One question though; if we are already talking new boilers, why not the whole shabang? What wouldd be the cost of say, replicating a 2-4-0 Porter from 1878?

Not that I'm sighting any specific example, of course ;-)

> Dave,

> I believe L&RP (when it was still being
> published) carried an article on the Texas
> State Railroad. Seems like they had a new
> all-welded boiler built for their
> "Pershing" 2-8-0 several years
> ago.

> I too would really like to see an article on
> this process. Dixon Boiler Works (in
> California?) had built locomotive boilers
> but they are now out of business according
> to the last information I had.

> I have links to steam repair resources,
> including boiler fabricators, posted at the
> URL below (no profit to me, etc.). If anyone
> knows of others, please pass the info to me.

> Good Steaming,
> Hugh Odom


Port Huron Museum
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

didn't the Pacific Southwest Railway Museum in campo. CA get a new boiler built for their Pacific a few years ago?

I think that Dixon Boiler Works of Los Angeles
did it but like someone else above, I heard that they are are no longer in business.

The CA State Railroad Museum rivetted a new boiler onto the firebox of their granite quarry switcher, But is is straight pipe that they used. A small simple boiler shell.

The 24" WW&F Museum in Maine is fund raising for their engine #9; but it too is a small engine and I guess that they are going to use straight pressure pipe to make the structure.

Small is not just better for museums but with the skyrocketing costs of operating a steam engine; it looks like small is going to be the only way to go in the museum world!



ted_miles@nps.gov

Funny, I was thinking about that exact question recently.

When I was working at Glovers a few years back, I had some unsubstantive but interesting talks about a new 2 foot gage 0-4-4. I figured at that time that we could probably build the whole engine for 350 - 400K. Now the plant is gone and what as saved are being conserved and catalogued so it isn't likely new Glovers are going to materialize.

Bill Pettijean may have some more up to date figures.

Hugh, how much are the new lokies at Ffestiniog costing? How about the new Darjeeling and Himalaya? 2-8-2's from Winterthur?

Last figure I got from Strasburg for the probable estimate for the V&T replica was about 900K. Kelly, any better idea? That was just scuttlebutt at the convention a few years back.

If we can use off the shelf components like roller bearings, fabricate cylinders and saddles, cut the frames out of solid, can we build a little guy for maybe 500 - 700K?

Dave

> I love this thread as it espouses the kind
> of cooperation that benefits everyone.

At IRM, combined orders with other museums for small items aren't unheard of (at least in the Electric Car Dept). Just within the past 2-3 years we've gone in with other museums a few times on specially-ordered items like seat upholstery and window insulating rubber. In my experience this tends to be confined to smaller items, though; I would guess that this is partly because the fundraising needed for large expenditures often cannot be easily coordinated between different groups.

Frank Hicks

fullparallel@wideopenwest.com

I will reiterate what I said in my post of January 2nd:

"As a base line on 2Â’ gage costs, I offer the following. Last year we built a 2Â’ gage unpowered Thomas replica for Edaville, for considerably less than $150,000. This included all design work, roller bearing axles, drivers, tires, rods, frame, equalizing, and superstructure. To have a working steam locomotive would require the addition of cylinders, main rods, valve gear, boiler, and refinements to the frame and superstructure to make working water tanks, etc. To have a steaming 2Â’ Thomas? Perhaps triple the above figure (wild guess).

The cost of these items is hard to judge before the first example is completed. The V&T Lyon replicaÂ’s cost is driven considerably higher due to our clientÂ’s insistence that it be an exact duplicate of the original as far as possible, requiring, for example, many castings of parts that could be fabricated more economically today."


Strasburg Rail Road
kelly@strasburgrailroad.com

All I know is the more I look into this, the more the replica seems to be the answer. Being a Curator first, the probable destruction of most of what remains of the original object (even if the majority of the technology is 1910's and 20's instead of 1878) to make an operating loco is not palatable to me.

A replica, however, based closely as possible (with obvious considerations for safety, costs, etc.) to the original seems the way to go. The best of both worlds then exists: the ability to still study the original artifact while enjoy and appreciate (and operate) and close fascimile. Not that I currently have the fortune to pull this off, but the possibility does exist, given the right circumstances.

TJG

> I will reiterate what I said in my post of
> January 2nd:

> "As a base line on 2Â’ gage costs, I
> offer the following. Last year we built a 2Â’
> gage unpowered Thomas replica for Edaville,
> for considerably less than $150,000. This
> included all design work, roller bearing
> axles, drivers, tires, rods, frame,
> equalizing, and superstructure. To have a
> working steam locomotive would require the
> addition of cylinders, main rods, valve
> gear, boiler, and refinements to the frame
> and superstructure to make working water
> tanks, etc. To have a steaming 2Â’ Thomas?
> Perhaps triple the above figure (wild
> guess).

> The cost of these items is hard to judge
> before the first example is completed. The
> V&T Lyon replicaÂ’s cost is driven
> considerably higher due to our clientÂ’s
> insistence that it be an exact duplicate of
> the original as far as possible, requiring,
> for example, many castings of parts that
> could be fabricated more economically
> today."


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

There is a replica (working) at montreal, Canada (built in Japan, if my memory is correct)

I remember seeing the locomotives at Eurodisney, and they were built in Wales, (if my memory is correct).

You guys have your "last spike" locomotives.

There are actually more replicas floating around than you may at first think...

replacement boilers are also out there - just ask Tom Shreve of the Roaring Camp.

John Stewart
Ottawa, Canada.

> A replica, however, based closely as
> possible (with obvious considerations for
> safety, costs, etc.) to the original seems
> the way to go. The best of both worlds then
> exists: the ability to still study the
> original artifact while enjoy and appreciate
> (and operate) and close fascimile.

freewrl-1@rogers.com

I always thought that locomotives and rolling stock that are used in any way will wear in some way and will need replacment parts. Some parts are less expensive to remanufacture than they are to recondition. Some parts can become so worn that even after extensive rebuilding, using them in a piece of rolling stock that is used regularly could be dangerous (like boilers). It was known that when the locomoitve or railroad car was brand new, that things will need to be replaced. Are we really doing some injustice by remanufacturing parts instead of continually patching up the old ones? That's what real operating railroads did and still do even today. I suppose we could replicate the parts that wear and place the authentic parts on a shelf. This way, when the piece is finally taken out of service for good and placed on static display, we can give her back her origional birthday suit.
Bruce (future preservation specialist?)

> All I know is the more I look into this,
> the more the replica seems to be the answer.
> Being a Curator first, the probable
> destruction of most of what remains of the
> original object (even if the majority of the
> technology is 1910's and 20's instead of
> 1878) to make an operating loco is not
> palatable to me.

> A replica, however, based closely as
> possible (with obvious considerations for
> safety, costs, etc.) to the original seems
> the way to go. The best of both worlds then
> exists: the ability to still study the
> original artifact while enjoy and appreciate
> (and operate) and close fascimile. Not that
> I currently have the fortune to pull this
> off, but the possibility does exist, given
> the right circumstances.



trainhead@mymail.emcyber.com

If memory serves, Roaring Camp didn't set out to replace the whole boiler on Dixiana.

Tom, got your ears on? Can you share that saga? How about Natasha?

Dave

>I would guess that this is partly
> because the fundraising needed for large
> expenditures often cannot be easily
> coordinated between different groups.

> Frank Hicks

You are right on Frank ....probably could scare up enough chicken coops and cottages for about four dozen pair of Baldwins ...if only the money was there.


lamontdc@adelphia.net